Solo

1. Paul asserts his faith in "Christ crucified" a scandal to the Jews and folly to the Greeks (1 Cor 1:23). He confirms that Jesus was executed legally (Rom 8:4, Gal 3:11, 2 Cor 13:4) and expresses regret that the rulers of the age did not perceive the man was driven by the vision of God's glory (1 Cor 2:8).

2. Proposition #1 : Such views are internally consistent but meaningful only if Jesus was an identifiable human being and his execution did take place.

3. Proposition #2 : Paul is a self-admitted fool and therefore nothing that he says is valid.

4. Therefore....pick one for Peter Kirby's or spin's poll.

Jiri

spin

I gather this Chrestus reference comes from Suetonius. If so this Chrestus was disturbing people in Rome, though Jesus we are told never left Palestine. He is therefore irrelevant to Jesus.


spin

spin

Yes, I love argument from authority too. Mine.


spin

spin

I must admit, given described events such as 2 Cor 12:1ff, it is extremely hard to trust Paul's ummm, ... sources.


spin

Heidi Guedel

Um.... his mother Mary's face has recently appeared on a slice of cold pizza. Or was it an open face toasted cheeze sandwich? Anyhow, somebody paid a lot of money for it on e-bay. Therefore, Jesus exists.

post tenebras lux

I always thought that the correct form of this argument was as follows:

I'm not presently inclined to devote an issue to questioning the existence of Jesus. The topic is a perennial one among skeptics. If someone wants to doubt the existence of Jesus, my experience is that no evidence or argument will change his mind. Such is the nature of skepticism. But the existence of Jesus is not a living issue among historical Jesus scholars. Perhaps it should be, but it just isn't, at least at present. With so many other living issues to explore, I don't think it would be responsible to devote the limited space in the 4R to your suggestion.

i.e. Historical Jesus Scholars all believe Jesus existed.
Therefore, Jesus did exist.

Ref: lifted from EarlDoherty's post here

spin

Hey, look, do me a favor. The next time somethin' like that appears on ebay, call me. I gotta have it. Mother Mary's face, shite. I bet everyone will eventually want one, so call me the minute you hear of one again. You know, over at the Vatican you can buy ashtrays with the pope's face on them. But this is better: proof that Mary has a face... wonder what it tastes like...


spin

No Robots

Like chicken. Smells like fish.

Solo

Ok, spin, so tell me if Paul had a revelation about Jesus Christ from God, where does the "secular" view of him (2 Cor 5:16) - that Paul purposely rejects - come from ? Now, if you think that verse through, you will find that Paul regards no-one from human point of view which would be non-sequitur to Paul not regarding Christ that way, if we he did not intend to draw a parallel.

Therefore, even if Paul is a self-admitted fool for Christ, his "testimony" can be analyzed, and valid historical conclusions can be drawn from it.

Jiri

spin

Colonel Sanders could have made a fortune.


spin