Chris Weimer

I don't think anybody ever held this position, at least not with any serious credibility. One can easily look at the Stalinist and Maoist purges and come to the conclusion that their crimes were very heinous far surpassing the Christian mass murders. Ultimately, the point is that totalitarianism is the enemy, regardless of whether they are Communist or Christian.

Bede

Chris,

Get real. A lot of people here hold that position as do many of the writers in the Sec Web library. Look at the flack I have taken for even suggesting that the witch trials and inqusition numbers are a fraction of what the legands state. Look at the flack you gave me for even suggesting that Christianity didn't hold back science.

By the way, you asked me for a reference to lightning rods. Some advice:

1) When you ask someone to dig up a reference for you, it's polite to say thank you.
2) Don't bother ask for references if you have no intention of chasing them up.
3) If you have checked the reference, then its a good idea to let people know what you found.

These simple steps will avoid you appearing as a rude bastard.

Best wishes

Bede

Chris Weimer

I still give you "flack" for suggesting that Christianity didn't hold back science because it still did! You, however, have been switching your arguments in mid-debate to baseless strawmen such as what you've done here and the "What if Christianity never existed" thread. It went from Christianity didn't hold back science to Christianity didn't hold back all of science and even Look! other religions did the same. Exaggeration? I never gave you flack about quelling exaggerations - ALL things are exaggerated. But to suggest that our exaggerations let Christianity off the hook is quite ludicrous and perposterous. You apologies for the horrible systematic annihilation of "heretics" is appalling, regardless of whether the Church killed one billion or one hundred.

1) I'm sorry, but I don't recall where I asked you for that. I lost track of the huge "What if Christianity..." thread many posts back, seeing the debate as worthless, futile, and moot. Perhaps a kind PM suggesting I respond to something wouldn't be too difficult, no?

2) Intentions change.

3) Once again, I haven't even looked inside that particular thread in a while. Please refresh my memory so I can fulfill this obligation.

best regards,

A Very Rude Bastard

SkyDancer_0202

His premise seems to be that "witches" are running around citing that "millions" were killed during the middle ages, and that it was really *only* 40,000 to 100,000 makes it all better.

Except for the single cite in his article, I have never heard anyone claim "millions" during the middle ages.

And other than a strawman over exact numbers, the research he cites seems to SUPPORT the contentions I have heard with regard to persecutions of people for witchcraft during the Middle Ages. (Outside the scope of this article, but most Wiccans I've met don't confine it to the Middle Ages, either.)

Bede

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...22#post2769222

Wads4

They should be a darned sight better,--else what are they for?

Bede

So you think Christianity is a good thing? Nice to hear it.

B

Wads4

Not quite what I meant, though I am sure it is good in parts like the Parson's egg; Christians are supposed to be followers and imitators of God himself, alias Jesus,- so we would expect standards of perfection from them. The usual excuse why this is not so is that men, by their nature fall short of God's grace. This sounds like double standards,-either they are superior because God has made them so,-in which case we would expect it to show more than it does,--or else they cannot in practice live up to their aspirations and so really are no better than anyone else, and should be prepared to acknowledge the fact if they are honest, (and of course they are divinely honest).

Jack the Bodiless

It is sooooo tempting to refer to the OT genocides here.

Clearly the Christians failed to live up to God's high standards. They failed to kill ALL the "witches".

andrewcriddle

Although Behringer does claim this, and although the figure of 9 million executed witches undoubtedly does derive from German anti-clerical sources, it had already reached America around 1900 in the writings of the feminist Matilda Gage.

Radical American feminists such as Mary Daly who use this figure, probanly derived it from Gage rather than from German sources of the Nazi era.

Andrew Criddle