aa5874

Again, that is precisely what we do NOT know and have ZERO evidence from antiquity to corroborate. Merely repeating the claims of the Pauline writings is NOT confirmation at all.

We can read the Epistles but the NEXT step is to CONFIRM, corroborate and attest. ALL THE DATED TEXTS for any Jesus story is from the mid 2nd century or later.

Jesus, the disciples and Paul are NOT accounted for at all.

The Big Picture of HJ is a BIG BLACK Hole derived from Myth Fables, discredited sources and forgeries.

aa5874

You do NOT appear credible. You read my posts. Why can't you even admit that you read my posts??? This is most remarkable.

You read my post and claim you do NOT.

You have done EXACTLY what I wanted you to.

We have the list of dated Texts for the Jesus stories and NONE of them are from the 1st century--NONE.

Your presumptions about Paul, Jesus and the disciples are WORTHLESS.

TedM

No aa, I read about 5% of your posts. 10% at the most. I'm just curious how you can stand doing it over and over. I'm hating the fact that I allowed myself to get back on these threads and it has only been 3 days. I'm quitting real soon again..

TedM

Galations

aa5874

This is quite fascinating!! You don't believe gMark is historical, claim the Gospels are Fiction, and now Christians are lying to themselves but you still accept their Jesus story WITHOUT first getting corroboration.

The 2nd century evidence is STACKED up against you. The forgeries of antiquity surround you.

There is NOTHING but the blindest of Blind Faith--Faith without Trust.

Kapyong

How many people in the period doubted the existence of Aesculapis? or Apollo or Hercules? or Zeus? or Bacchus?

Practically no-one (I can think of maybe one.)

It's not just doubts about Jesus that are missing,
it's doubts about ANY mythical figure.


K.

spin

Hmmm, Galations! TedM never learns.

sotto voce

There is evidently misunderstanding here. Those opposed to justification by faith were Jews, but not Christians. If the Galatians were to be circumcised in order to be acceptable to God, they were in effect saying that the righteousness of Jesus was not imputed to them. That is why they were 'foolish' for even entertaining the notion. They were in effect saying, by agreeing to be circumcised, that Jesus was not righteous; was not divine; was not Christ. Even Jews, circumcised according to Law, were not justified at all by virtue of their circumcision. All the advantages of being an Israelite or Jew were of no account if there was not faith in the atonement of Jesus that made him the long-promised Messiah or Christ.

The problem that many Jews had was that, because they realised that Jesus was their saviour, they owed him their allegiance, and he became their lord; and they did not want that. They wanted to do their own thing. So they pursued Gentile Christians to circumcise them, which would have made their difficulty disappear, had they succeeded.

GakuseiDon

Tatian writes (my bolding):
http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...n-address.html

For what reason is Hera now never pregnant? Has she grown old? or is there no one to give you information? Believe me now, O Greeks, and do not resolve your myths and gods into allegory...

Metrodorus of Lampsacus, in his treatise concerning Homer, has argued very foolishly, turning everything into allegory. For he says that neither Hera, nor Athene, nor Zeus are what those persons suppose who consecrate to them sacred enclosures and groves, but parts of nature and certain arrangements of the elements. Hector also, and Achilles, and Agamemnon, and all the Greeks in general, and the Barbarians with Helen and Paris, being of the same nature, you will of course say are introduced merely for the sake of the machinery of the poem, not one of these personages having really existed.

and

Some say that he lived 90 years before the Olympiads, which would be 317 years after the taking of Troy. Others carry it down to a later date, and say that Homer was a contemporary of Archilochus; but Archilochus flourished about the 23d Olympiad, in the time of Gyges the Lydian, 500 years after Troy. Thus, concerning the age of the aforesaid poet, I mean Homer, and the discrepancies of those who have spoken of him, we have said enough in a summary manner for those who are able to investigate with accuracy. For it is possible to show that the opinions held about the facts themselves also are false. For, where the assigned dates do not agree together, it is impossible that the history should be true. For what is the cause of error in writing, but the narrating of things that are not true?

Tacitus thought that Saturn and Jupiter were just men. Saturn was a king in Crete. After Jupiter drove Saturn from the throne, Saturn went to Italy, where he taught many things to the Italians. IIRC Lucian was sceptical about the gods as gods. Plutarch also thought the myths of the gods should not be taken literally.

But we have no-one questioning the same about the Gospels. No-one to see "this is allegory", no-one who thinks "this is poetry like Homer". No-one who says "The story of Christ crucified should not be taken literally". We do have pagan critics like Celsus who say the apostles were liars; but he doesn't recognise the Gospels as a fiction novel or poetry. In other words, if the Gospels were like that, no-one from that time appeared to recognise that.

aa5874

I think you keep coming back because you desperately want to win at least one argument. As soon as you realize it wont happen you quit. You will NEVER win if you attempt to defend an HJ.

Now tell me about your HJ--NOT FROM YOUR IMAGINATION--from the history book.

Just give me the page where your HJ is described.

You have no real history book for your Jesus???

You made up everything.