Freethought & Rationalism Archive

3DJay · 04-13-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

They did. They had a choice to begin a reference to their reign when they were first divinely identified as kings of their perspective kingdoms. So yes, their reigns are absolutely parallel since they were appointed king at the same time when the coat was torn. Certainly Jeroboam didn't begin his official, hands-on rule until he actually returned from Egypt, but God had told him he wouldn't begin his actual rule until Solomon died. But that didn't stop Rehoboam from starting his rule as king and co-ruler. The "option" for them both to begin counting their rule simultaneously though from the time of the tearing of the coats is a cultural/literary option. Jeroboam was a king in exile, that's all.

Not exactly. He would have been considered a king in exile, that's all. When he technically or symbolically "became king" is up to the custom or the Biblical reference. It is "apparent" that both Jeroboam and Rehoboam's reigns are counted from the time of their divine appointment. That's when they officially "became king" when God appointed them.

Think of it this way, 3DJay. You've been chosen as the new king of England by this board. It takes you 4 years to conquer England. From when do you count your kingship? From the time you were appointed or from the time you actually began to rule? Point being, you do have a choice.

Further, some of that may have to do with extending the length of the reign, making it as long as possible and thus starting it at the earliest possible moment. If both thought they were "anointed" as king at the time of the tearing of the coats, then certainly a religious book like the Bible might consider that a more important event in relation to that reign than the actual taking over. Further, if the king is deposed or exile, he would still be considered "the king".

At any rate, this is the Bible's choice and not ours. If you want to exclude the literary license of the historians from doing it this way and presume this is just an error or contradiction, be my guest. Because it was meant to be confusing. It was deliberately hiding exactly when Shishak's invasion occurred. This is not the worst example of this "history baiting" by the Bible to the casual reader.

LG47

:wide:

Wow! You're abilities to dance around what's plain as day, is truly impressive. :notworthy:

Life must be grand, behind a pair of them shades.

1 Kings 12:20 When all the Israelites heard that Jeroboam had returned, they sent and called him to the assembly and made him king over all Israel. Only the tribe of Judah remained loyal to the house of David.

You didn't even know what the plague of the firstborn is, for cryin out loud!

Exodus 11:4 So Moses said, "This is what the LORD says: 'About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. 6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. 7 But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any man or animal.' Then you will know that the LORD makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel. 8 All these officials of yours will come to me, bowing down before me and saying, 'Go, you and all the people who follow you!' After that I will leave." Then Moses, hot with anger, left Pharaoh.

Go reread your Bible.

Peace

Sauron · 04-13-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

You're confusing interpretation with results. If we were just interested in how many years the testing showed up and the range of those years, then we'd have say 918-823BCE. Those are the results. We presume that event occurred sometime between those dates. But what we find with multiple testing in addition to that range, is a concentration near the center of this range.

What "multiple testing"? There has been no other testing.

Quote:

For some strange and unknown reason the researchers created this vertical bar measurement from 0.0 to 1.0 to measure this aggregated averaging, presuming it was relative or closer to the "true date."

Nothing "strange" or "unknown" about it, L47. Just because you don't understand how probability is calculated, does not mean that the researchers didn't know how to properly calculate it.

Quote:

Thus it suggests that the "relative probability" of this event, or the age of the grain likely harvested within a year of this event is most probable in ratio to the other dates turning up in the same at 95% or greater for a very narrow range of dates say from 874-867BCE, for which they are 99% "relatively probable" that this event took place within this range.

Absolutely incorrect. Relative probability has a well-understood definition in scientific writings, and it is most definitely NOT what you are trying to describe here.

You are trying to paint your own misunderstandings of the data onto the researchers, and then convince all of us that the researchers shared your busted interpretation. Fat chance.

Quote:

We can check the accuracy of this via Biblical chronology

No, we cannot. The bible chronology is what you're trying to prove, remember? The reason that we're discussing this is because you claimed the bible chronology was correct. You cannot use your desired conclusion as proof that your conclusion is correct. That is circular reasoning.

Quote:

So all this "theory" is about is that given a sample that is tested multiple times, the highest average match is likely closer to the "true date" and that theory is confirmed, even when their matching has only a 7-year error margin!

And as we've said before: this is not how the probability is calculated. Your argument as well as your conclusion are both wrong. The only question is: how many pages of repeating this will it take before you realize it.

spamandham · 04-13-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

Talk all you want. But the chart is SELF LABELLED. One side is "relative probability" and the bottom are dates. Simple. It means we compare dates with their "relative probability" based upon the height of the shading above that date.

Interpreted that way, the chart suggests that the 99% "relative probability" for dates 874-867BCE actually includes the "true date." And it does! So it works.

Yes, you keep pointing out that the chart is SELF LABELLED, and you keep interpreting it wrong nonetheless. Do you really think there is a conspiracy here between the dozen or more posters who keep trying to explain this chart to you? You might succeed in proving every one of those dozen or so hate the Bible, but that doesn't mean there is a conspiracy of some kind to lie to you about what this chart means. You are obstinate, I'll give you that much, but unfortunately, you are also wrong.

If the date you keep harping on had a 100% probability, as you seem to think it does, that would only be possible if all other dates had a 0% probability. Note the word "relative" that you seem to know is there, but can't seem to comprehend what it means. Here's what it means. It means you can take a ratio between the values off the chart for any two (or more) dates of interest to determine how likely one is relative to the other.

So, 907 BCE has a score of 0.5 (estimating of course), and 870 has a score of 1. This does not mean there is a 100% probability the actual date is 870 and a 50% probability it's 907. Surely you have to agree that makes no sense.

Instead, the chart is telling you that 870 is twice as probable as 907 (1/0.5). But then 906 is higher than 907. So, 870 is somewhat less than twice as likely as 906, and so on. The sum of all probabilities always = 100 %, meaning there is absolute certainty that some date is the right date, but we don't know which one.

Look, you will NEVER convince those of us here who have pointed this out repeatedly to you that you are interpreting the graph right, for the simple reason that you are not. Why don't you take this graph to your local college and talk to a statistics prof about how to interpret it. Ask him point blank, "based on this chart, what do you assess as the probability that the actual value is 870"?

If you're worried he's part of the evil atheist anti-Bible conspiracy, you could remove everything from the chart except the values on the X and Y axis, and the term "relative probability", so that he won't even know you're talking about the Bible or history at all.

His answer is going to range from 1% to 5% depending on how good his eyeball estimation skill are, even if you obscure the subject matter completely, because the graph is self evidently a PDF scaled such that the peak value is 1, and he'll recognize it instantly as such.

spamandham · 04-13-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

But what we find with multiple testing in addition to that range, is a concentration near the center of this range.

What multiple testing are you referring to? I've asked you for a reference to whatever source you are using, and you repeatedly ignore that request. I take this as evidence you are just making shit up.

Are you referring to the data from which the graph was derived, or some other data?

spin · 04-14-2007, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

What multiple testing are you referring to? I've asked you for a reference to whatever source you are using, and you repeatedly ignore that request. I take this as evidence you are just making shit up.

Are you referring to the data from which the graph was derived, or some other data?

It doesn't matter how loud you shout at him, he cannot hear you.

There are none so deaf as who will not hear.

spin

Febble · 04-14-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

You're confusing interpretation with results.

No, your interpretation of the results is confused.

Quote:

If we were just interested in how many years the testing showed up and the range of those years, then we'd have say 918-823BCE. Those are the results. We presume that event occurred sometime between those dates.

Nope. There is 4.8% probability that the event occurred outside that range.

Quote:

But what we find with multiple testing in addition to that range, is a concentration near the center of this range.

Please read the paper, and find out what a

Monte Carlo simulation is.

Quote:

The concentrations cannot be expressed in a single horizontal line across the dates. It is expressed vertically above each date which becomes a shaded area.

Yes. This is correct. It's why it's called a

probability density function . You can think of it a probability concentration plot.

Quote:

For some strange and unknown reason the researchers created this vertical bar measurement from 0.0 to 1.0 to measure this aggregated averaging, presuming it was relative or closer to the "true date." They called this vertical measurement of the weighted average "RELATIVE PROBABILITY."

No. I explained the "strange and unknown reason". It is not "strange and unknown". The "relative probability" is not "the weighted average", and it does not tell you that the date is "relative or closer to the 'true date'". I explained what it is relative to. Did you not actually read my post? It is the probability that the date is the true date relative to the probability that the most probable date is the true date. The probability that the most probable date (around 871) is the true date is only a few percent. the probability of all other dates being the true date is even less.

Quote:

Thus it suggests that the "relative probability" of this event, or the age of the grain likely harvested within a year of this event is most probable in ratio to the other dates turning up in the same at 95% or greater for a very narrow range of dates say from 874-867BCE, for which they are 99% "relatively probable" that this event took place within this range.

So this is completely wrong.

Do you remember Lars, you were also completely wrong in your understanding of evolution? I was very impressed at your ability to learn. What's happened here?

Febble · 04-14-2007, 01:30 AM

And I should point out that as the probability that the most probable date is the true date is only a few percent, there is a much higher probability that the true date is some other date than that it is 871.

vikingrob · 04-14-2007, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Febble

The concept of the (absolute) probability of an event is quite straightforward. Let's say I have a bag containing 25 red balls and 75 blue ones, and I draw one from the bag, then put it back. If I do this a very large number of times, and after each draw I write down which colour ball I drew, I will find that about 25% of the time I draw a red one and about 75% of the time I draw a blue one. This is because 25% of the balls are red and 75% of the balls are blue. There is zero probability that I will draw a yellow ball because there are no yellow balls in the bag. If there was one yellow ball in the bag, and only 24 red ones, over a great many draws, I would find that about 1% of my draws were yellow balls, and 24% were red balls and 50% were blue balls. Note that these percentages have to add up to 100%.

OK, here is what the relative probability is:

We decide, arbitrarily, to relate the probability of drawing each colour ball to the probability of drawing blue balls, simply because blue balls are the most common balls in the bag, and I therefore have the greatest probability of drawing a blue ball. So to find the relative probability of drawing a yellow ball (relative to drawing a blue ball) I divide the probability of getting a yellow ball (2%) by the probability of getting a blue ball (50%)

.02/.5 = .02 = 2%

More like 0.01 / 0.75 = 0.013333 = 1.3333%

Quote:

To find the relative probability of getting a red ball, I divide the probability of getting a red ball (24%) by the probability of getting a blue ball (50%):

.24/.5 = .48 = 48%

More like 0.24 / 0.75 = 0.32 = 32%

Quote:

And to find the relative probability of getting a blue ball (yes) I divide the probability of getting a blue ball (50%) by the probability of getting a blue ball (50%)

.5/.5 = 1 = 100%

So my absolute probabilities are:

Yellow = 1%
Red = 24%
Blue = 50%

Yellow = 1%
Red = 24%
Blue = 75%

Quote:

And my relative probabilities (relative to blue) are:

Yellow = 2%
Red = 48%
Blue = 100%.

Yellow = 1.3333%
Red = 32%
Blue = 100%

Quote:

That does NOT, REPEAT NOT, mean that the probability of getting a blue ball is 100%. A relative probability of 100% just means that that colour has the greatest probability of being drawn.

Not necessarily.

Larsguy47 · 04-14-2007, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Febble

And I should point out that as the probability that the most probable date is the true date is only a few percent, there is a much higher probability that the true date is some other date than that it is 871.

ONE SIDE: "Relative Probability". Define that as you will. A "probability" is not an absolute, it's an suggestion.

OTHER SIDE: BCE DATES.

So this chart compares BCE dates against "relative probability" and it does so with a graph which shows a shaded area that extends vertically above the dates are sequential. Thus the height of the shading above a certain date reflects the "relative probability" for that date based on the weighted averaging method. That presumption is that the higher the average the closer to the "true date", thus the higher the average, the higher the relative probability.

And how do we know this?

Because the general center of the overall range shows the higher average. Thus even as articulated, for the 95.4% range of 918-823BCE, if you calculate the center of that range, which 870.5, you will see that dating falls in the 95-100% range of the scale, there 0.0 is 0% and 1.0 is 100%. Thus the more central the range, the presume greater "relative probability" of the true date.

If that's correct in practice, however, given a true date based reliable historical dating, in this case, either accurate astronomical dating where the 709BCE Assyrian eclipse provides an absolute date for Shishak's invasion to 871BCE, or via Biblical dating which would ate Solomon's reign from 910-870BCE, and Shishak's invasion to some time prior to the end of Solomon's reign, but very close to the end of Solomon's reign, 871BCE gets a cross reference for accuracy for that event, confirming a 6-year co-rulership between Rehoboam and Solomon, which can be calculated independently by text dating from 455BCE, another eclipse-corrected date for the 1st of Cyrus.

Here is a previous chart calculating co-rulerships for the divided kingdom prepared before radiometric dating from Rehov was accessed:

Code:

UPDATED: 8/10/2006


REVISED JUDEAN CO-RULERSHIP KING LIST

From 455 B.C., 19 jubilees of 49 years each, that is 931
years were calculated for the year of the Exodus in
1386 B.C. (455+931+1386).  From there, 480 years were
calculated to the fourth year of Solomon in 906 B.C. (1
Kings 6:1).  Solomon's first year is thus dated in 909
B.C.


     JUDAH              ISRAEL
910
909  SOL01
908  SOL02
907  SOL03
906  SOL04
905  SOL05
904  SOL06
903  SOL07
902  SOL08
901  SOL09
900  SOL10
  
899  SOL11
898  SOL12
897  SOL13
896  SOL14
895  SOL15
894  SOL16
893  SOL17
892  SOL18
891  SOL19
890  SOL20
  
889  SOL21
888  SOL22
887  SOL23
886  SOL24
885  SOL25
884  SOL26
883  SOL27
882  SOL28
881  SOL29
880  SOL30
  
879  SOL31
878  SOL32
877  SOL33
876  SOL34  REH01       JRB01 <--COAT TORN
875  SOL35  REH02       JRB02
874  SOL36  REH03       JRB03
873  SOL37  REH04       JRB04
872  SOL38  REH05       JRB05 <--SHISHAK INVADES
871  SOL39  REH06       JRB06
870  SOL40  REH07       JRB07           
869         REH08       JRB08
868         REH09       JRB09
867         REH10       JRB10
866         REH11       JRB11
865         REH12       JRB12
864         REH13       JRB13
863         REH14       JRB14
862         REH15       JRB15
861         REH16       JRB16
860         REH17       JRB17
         
859  ABJ01              JRB18
858  ABJ02              JRB19
857  ABJ03              JRB20
856  ASA01              JRB21
855  ASA02              JRB22  NAD01
854  ASA03              BAA01  NAD02
853  ASA04              BAA02
852  ASA05              BAA03
851  ASA06              BAA04
850  ASA07              BAA05
                
849  ASA08              BAA06
848  ASA09              BAA07
847  ASA10              BAA08
846  ASA11              BAA09
845  ASA12              BAA10
844  ASA13              BAA11
843  ASA14              BAA12
842  ASA15              BAA13
841  ASA16              BAA14
840  ASA17              BAA15
                
839  ASA18              BAA16
838  ASA19              BAA17
837  ASA20              BAA18
836  ASA21              BAA19
835  ASA22              BAA20
834  ASA23              BAA21
833  ASA24              BAA22
832  ASA25              BAA23
831  ASA26              BAA24  ELA01
830  ASA27  (ZIMRI)     OMR01  ELA02
                                     (ASSYRIA)
829  ASA28              OMR02  TIB02  ASHUR01
828  ASA29              OMR03  TIB03  ASHUR02
827  ASA30              OMR04  TIB04  ASHUR03
826  ASA31              OMR05         ASHUR04
825  ASA32              OMR06         ASHUR05
824  ASA33              OMR07         ASHUR06
823  ASA34              OMR08         ASHUR07
822  ASA35              OMR09         ASHUR08
821  ASA36              0MR10         ASHUR09
820  ASA37              OMR11         ASHUR10
819  ASA38  JHP01       OMR12         ASHUR11
818  ASA39  JHP02              AHB01  ASHUR12     
817  ASA40  JHP03              AHB02  ASHUR13   
816  ASA41  JHP04              AHB03  ASHUR14 
815         JHP05              AHB04  ASHUR15
814         JHP06              AHB05  ASHUR16
813         JHP07              AHB06  ASHUR17
812         JHP08              AHB07  ASHUR18
811         JHP09              AHB08  ASHUR19
810         JHP10              AHB09  ASHUR20
809         JHP11              AHB10  ASHUR21
808         JHP12              AHB11  ASHUR22
807         JHP13              AHB12  ASHUR23
806         JHP14              AHB13  ASHUR24
805         JHP15              AHB14  ASHUR25
804         JHP16              AHB15  SHALMANESER III (35)-01
803         JHP17       AHZ01  AHB16  SHL3-02
802         JHP18       02-01  AHB17  SHL3-03
801         JHP19       JHO02  AHB18  SHL3-04
800         JHP20       JHO03  AHB19  SHL3-05
799         JHP21       JHO04  AHB20  SHL3-06<---(*N.1)
798 JHO01   JHP22       JHO05  AHB21  SHL3-07
797 JHO02   JHP23       JHO06  AHB22  SHL3-08
796 JHO03   JHP24       JHO07         SHL3-09
795 JHO04   JHP25       JHO08         SHL3-10
794 JHO05               JHO09         SHL3-11
793 JHO06               JHO10         SHL3-12
792 JHO07   AHZ.5       JHO11         SHL3-13
791 JH008   AHZ.5       JHO12         SHL3-14
790 ATH01                      JHU01  SHL3-15       
789 ATH02                      JHU02  SHL3-16
788 ATH03 (*N1=KARKAR, 799)    JHU03  SHL3-17
787 ATH04 (JEHU PAYS TRIBUTE)  JHU04  SHL3-18 <----
786 ATH05                      JHU05  SHL3-19
785 ATH06                      JHU06  SHL3-20
784 ATH07  JHO01               JHU07  SHL3-21
783        JHO02               JHU08  SHL3-22
782        JHO03               JHU09  SHL3-23
783        JHO04               JHU10  SHL3-24
780        JHO05               JHU11  SHL3-25
779        JHO06               JHU12  SHL3-26
778        JHO07               JHU13  SHL3-27
777        JHO08               JHU14  SHL3-28
776        JHO09               JHU15  SHL3-29
775        JHO10               JHU16  SHL3-30
774        JHO11               JHU17  SHL3-31
773        JHO12               JHU18  SHL3-32
772        JHO13               JHU19  SHL3-33
771        JHO14               JHU20  SHL3-34
770        JHO15               JHU21  SHL3-35
769        JHO16               JHU22  SHAMSHI-ADAD V (13) -01  
768        JHO17               JHU23  SGAD5-02
767        JHO18               JHU24  SGAD5-03
766        JHO19               JHU25  SGAD5-04
765        JHO20               JHU26  SGAD5-05
764        JHO21               JHU27  SGAD5-06
763        JHO22               JHU28  SGAD5-07
762        JHO23        JHH01         SGAD5-08
761        JHO24        JHH02         SGAD5-09
760        JHO25        JHH03         SGAD5-10
759        JHO26        JHH04         SGAD5-11
758        JHO27        JHH05         SGAD5-12
757        JHO28        JHH06         SGAD5-13
756        JHO29        JHH07         ADAD-NIRARI III (28) -01
755        JHO30        JHH08         ADNI3-02
754        JHO31        JHH09         ADNI3-03
753        JHO32        JHH10         ADNI3-04
752        JHO33        JHH11         ADNI3-05
751        JHO34        JHH12         ADNI3-06
750        JHO35        JHH13         ADNI3-07
749        JHO36        JHH14         ADNI3-08
748        JHO37        JHH15  JHA01  ADNI3-09
747        JHO38        JHH16  JHA02  ADNI3-10 
746        JHO39        JHH17  JHA03  ADNI3-11
745 AMA01  JHO40         (1)<--JHA04  ADNI3-12
744 AMA02                (2)<--JHA05  ADNI3-13
743 AMA03                      JHA06  ADNI3-14
742 AMA04               JRB01  JHA07  ADNI3-15
741 AMA05               JRB02  JHA08  ADNI3-16
740 AMA06               JRB03  JHA09  ADNI3-17
739 AMA07  UZZ01        JRB04  JHA10  ADNI3-18
738 AMA08  UZZ02        JRB05  JHA11  ADNI3-19
737 AMA09  UZZ03        JRB06  JHA12  ADNI3-20
736 AMA10  UZZ04        JRB07  JHA13  ADNI3-21
735 AMA11  UZZ05        JRB08  JHA14  ADNI3-22
734 AMA12  UZZ06        JRB09  JHA15  ADNI3-23
733 AMA13  UZZ07        JRB10  JHA16  ADNI3-24
732 AMA14  UZZ08        JRB11  JAH17  ADNI3-25
731 AMA15  UZZ09        JRB12         ADNI3-26
730 AMA16  UZZ10        JRB13         ADNI3-27
729 AMA17  UZZ11        JRB14         ADNI3-18
728 AMA18  UZZ12        JRB15         SHALMANESER IV (10) -01
727 AMA19  UZZ13        JRB16         SHL4-02
726 AMA20  UZZ14        JRB17         SHL4-03
725 AMA21  UZZ15        JRB18         SHL4-04
724 AMA22  UZZ16        JRB19         SHL4-05
723 AMA23  UZZ17        JRB20         SHL4-06
722 AMA24  UZZ18        JRB21         SHL4-07
721 AMA25  UZZ19        JRB22         SHL4-08
720 AMA26  UZZ20        JRB23         SHL4-09
719 AMA27  UZZ21        JRB24         SHL4-10
718 AMA28  UZZ22        JRB25  ASHUR-DAN-III (18) -01
717 AMA29  UZZ23        JRB26  ASD3-2
716 (1)<-- UZZ24        JRB27  ASD3-3
715 (2)<-- UZZ25        JRB28  ASD3-4
714        UZZ26        JRB29  ASD3-5
713        UZZ27        JRB30  ASD3-6
712        UZZ28        JRB31  ASD3-7
711        UZZ29        JRB32  ASD3-8
710        UZZ30        JRB33  ASSUR-DAN-III(*9)
709        UZZ31        JRB34  (ECLIPSE)(*10)
708        UZZ32        JRB35  ASD3-11
707        UZZ33        JRB36  ASD3-12
706        UZZ34        JRB37  ASD3-13
705        UZZ35        JRB38  ASD3-14
704        UZZ36        JRB39  ASD3-15
703        UZZ37        JRB40  ASD3-16
702        UZZ38        JRB41  ASD3-17
701        UZZ39        ZEC.5  ASD3-18
700        UZZ40        MEN01  ASHUR-NIRANI V (10) -02
699        UZZ41        MEN02  AN5-3
698        UZZ42        MEN03  AN5-4
697        UZZ43        MEN04  AN5-5
696        UZZ44        MEN05  AN5-6
695        UZZ45        MEN06  AN5-7
694        UZZ46        MEN07  AN5-8
693        UZZ47        MEN08  AN5-9
692        UZZ48        MEN09  AN5-10
691        UZZ49        MEN10  TIGLATH-PILESER 3 (18)-02  
690        UZZ50        PKI01         TGP3-03
689        UZZ51        PKI02         TGP3-04
688        UZZ52        PEK01         TGP3-05
687 JOT01               PEK02         TGP3-06
686 JOT02               PEK03         TGP3-07
685 JOT03               PEK04         TGP3-08
684 JOT04               PEK05         TGP3-09
683 JOT05               PEK06         TGP3-10
682 JOT06               PEK07         TGP3-11
683 JOT07               PEK08         TGP3-12
680 JOT08               PEK09         TGP3-13
679 JOT09  AHZ01        PEK10         TGP3-14
678 JOT10  AHZ02        PEK11         TGP3-15
677 JOT11  AHZ03        PEK12         TGP3-16
676 JOT12  AHZ04        PEK13         TGP3-17
675 JOT13  AHZ05        PEK14         TGP3-18
674 JOT14  AHZ06        PEK15         SHALMANESER 5 (5) 02
673 JOT15  AHZ07        PEK16         SH5-03         
672 JOT16  AHZ08        PEK17         SH5-04
671 (17)   AHZ09        PEK18         SH5-05
670 (18)   AHZ10        PEK19         SARGON II (17) -02
669 (19)   AHZ11        PEK20         SAR2-03
668 (20)   AHZ12               HOS01  SAR2-04
667        AHZ13               HOS02  SAR2-05
666 HEZ.5  AHZ14               HOS03  SAR2-06
665 HEZ01  AHZ15               HOS04  SAR2-07
664 HEZ02  AHZ16               HOS05  SAR2-08
663 HEZ03                      HOS06  SAR2-09
662 HEZ04                      HOS07  SAR2-10
661 HEZ05                      HOS08  SAR2-11
660 HEZ06                      HOS09  SAR2-12
659 HEZ07                      (END)  SAR2-13
658 HEZ08                             SAR2-14
657 HEZ09                             SAR2-15
656 HEZ10                             SAR2-16
655 HEZ11                             SAR2-17
654 HEZ12                             SENNACHERIB (24)-02
653 HEZ13                             SENC-03
652 HEZ14                             SENC-04  (JUBILEE YEAR)
651 HEZ15                             SENC-05
650 HEZ16                             SENC-06
649 HEZ17                             SENC-07
648 HEZ18                             SENC-08
647 HEZ19                             SENC-09
646 HEZ20                             SENC-10
645 HEZ21                             SENC-11
644 HEZ22                             SENC-12
643 HEZ23                             SENC-13
642 HEZ24                             SENC-14
641 HEZ25                             SENC-15
640 HEZ26                             SENC-16
639 HEZ27  MAN01                      SENC-17
638 HEZ28  MAN02                      SENC-18
637 HEZ29  MAN03                      SENC-19
636        MAN04                      SENC-20
635        MAN05                      SENC-21
634        MAN06                      SENC-22
633        MAN07                      SENC-23
632        MAN08                      SENC-24
631        MAN09                      ESARHADDON (12) -02
630        MAN10                      ESHD-03
629        MAN11                      ESHD-04
628        MAN12                      ESHD-05
627        MAN13                      ESHD-06
626        MAN14                      ESHD-07
625        MAN15                      ESHD-08
624        MAN16                      ESHD-09
623        MAN17                      ESHD-10
622        MAN18                      ESHD-11
621        MAN19                      ESHD-12
620        MAN20                      ASHURBANIPAL (42)-02
619        MAN21                      ASHB-03
618        MAN22                      ASHB-04
617        MAN23                      ASHB-05
616        MAN24                      ASHB-06
615        MAN25                      ASHB-07
614        MAN26                      ASHB-08
613        MAN27                      ASHB-09
612        MAN28                      ASHB-10
611        MAN29                      ASHB-11
610        MAN30                      ASHB-12
609        MAN31                      ASHB-13
608        MAN32                      ASHB-14
607        MAN33                      ASHB-15
606        MAN34                      ASHB-16
605        MAN35                      ASHB-17
604        MAN36                      ASHB-18
603        MAN37                      ASHB-19 JUBILEE YEAR
602        MAN38                      ASHB-20
601        MAN39                      ASHB-21
600        MAN40                      ASHB-22
599        MAN41                      ASHB-23
598        MAN42                      ASHB-24
597        MAN43                      ASHB-25
596        MAN44                      ASHB-26
595        MAN45                      ASHB-27
594        MAN46                      ASHB-28
593        MAN47                      ASHB-29
592        MAN48                      ASHB-30
591        MAN49                      ASHB-31
590        MAN50                      ASHB-32
589        MAN51                      ASHB-33
588        MAN52                      ASHB-34
587        MAN53                      ASHB-35
586        MAN54                      ASHB-36
585        MAN55                      ASHB-37
584 AMN01                             ASHB-38
583 AMN02                             ASHB-39
582        JOS01                      ASHB-40
583        JOS02                      ASHB-41
580        JOS03                      ASHB-42
579        JOS04                      ASHUR-ETELLI-ILINAI-02
578        JOS05                      ASEI-03
577        JOS06                      ASEI-04
576        JOS07                      SIN-SHAR-ISHKUN (12) -01
575        JOS08                      SSI-02
574        JOS09                      SSI-03
573        JOS10                      SSI-04
572        JOS11                      SSI-05
571        JOS12                      SSI-06
570        JOS13        (BABYLON)     SSI-07
569        JOS14                      SSI-08
568        JOS15                      SSI-09
567        JOS16                      SSI-10
566        JOS17                      SSI=11
565        JOS18                      SSI-12   (FALL OF NINEVEH) 
564        JOS19        NABOPAL-01             (30 YEARS TO 5TH YR EXILE JEHOIACHIN)(1)
563        JOS20        NABOPAL-02    
562        JOS21        NABOPAL-03    
561        JOS22        NABOPAL-04    
560        JOS23        NABOPAL-05    
559        JOS24        NABOPAL-06    
558        JOS25        NABOPAL-07      
557        JOS26        NABOPAL-08  
556        JOS27        NABOPAL-09  
555        JOS28        NABOPAL-10  
554        JOS29        NABOPAL-11  
553        JOS30        NABOPAL-12          JUBILEE YEAR
552        JOS31        NABOPAL-13  
551                     NABOPAL-14     
550  JHK01              NABOPAL-15  
549  JHK02              NABOPAL-16  
548  JHK03  1ST DEPORT. NABOPAL-17  NABOPAL-17  NEBUCH2-ACC
547  JHK04  NECHO ATTACK            NEBUCH2-01  (18)
546  JHK05                          NEBUCH2-02  (19)
545  JHK06                          NEBUCH2-03  (20)
544  JHK07                          NEBUCH2-04  (21)
543  JHK08                          NEBUCH2-05  (22)
542  JHK08                          NEBUCH2-06  (23)
541  JHK10         2ND DEPORT.      NEBUCH2-07  (24)
540  JHK11  JHC.3  3RD DEPORT.      NEBUCH2-08  (25)
539  ZED01                          NEBUCH2-09 (1st exile of Jehoiachin-month 5)(26)
538  ZED02                          NEBUCH2-10 (2nd, month 5)(27)
537  ZED03                          NEBUCH2-11 (3rd, month 5)(28)
536  ZED04                          NEBUCH2-12 (4th, month 5)(29)
535  ZED05                          NEBUCH2-13 (5th, month 5)(30th of Nabopolassar)
534  ZED06                          NEBUCH2-14
533  ZED07                          NEBUCH2-15
532  ZED08                          NEBUCH2-16
531  ZED09                          NEBUCH2-17
530  ZED10   4TH DEPORT.            NEBUCH2-18
529  ZED11  JERUSALEM DESTROYED     NEBUCH2-19 (5TH D.)
528         GEDALIAH01              NEBUCH2-20
527         GEDALIAH02              NEBUCH2-21  
526                                 NEBUCH2-22
525  (70-YEARS BEGINS) 6TH DEPORT.  NEBUCH2-23
524                                 NEBUCH2-24
523                                 NEBUCH2-25
522                                 NEBUCH2-26
521                                 NEBUCH2-27
520                                 NEBUCH2-28
519                                 NEBUCH2-29
518                                 NEBUCH2-30
517                                 NEBUCH2-31
516                                 NEBUCH2-32
515                                 NEBUCH2-33
514                                 NEBUCH2-34
513                                 NEBUCH2-35
512                                 NEBUCH2-36
511                                 NEBUCH2-37
510                                 NEBUCH2-38
509                                 NEBUCH2-39
508                                 NEBUCH2-40
507                                 NEBUCH2-41
506                                 NEBUCH2-42
505                                 NEBUCH2-43
504                                 NEBUCH2-44
503                                 NEBUCH2-45
502               EV-MRDK-01
501               EV-MRDK-02
500               EV-MRDK-03
499               EV-MRDK-04
498               EV-MRDK-05
497               EV-MRDK-06
496               EV-MRDK-07
495               EV-MRDK-08
494               EV-MRDK-09
493               EV-MRDK-10
492               EV-MRDK-11
491               EV-MRDK-12
490               EV-MRDK-13
489               EV-MRDK-14
488               EV-MRDK-15
487               EV-MRDK-16
486               EV-MRDK-17
485               EV-MRDK-18
484                             NIGLSR-01
483                             NIGLSR-02
482                             NIGLSR-03
483                             NIGLSR-04
480               NABON-01
479               NABON-02
478 (ECLIPSE)     NABON-03      BELSHZ-01 M/LYDIA PEACE
477               NABON-04      BELSHZ-02
476               NABON-05      BELSHZ-03
475               NABON-06      BELSHZ-04
474               NABON-07      BELSHZ-05
473               NABON-08      BELSHZ-06
472               NABON-09      BELSHZ-07
471               NABON-10      BELSHZ-08
470               NABON-11      BELSHZ-09
469               NABON-12      BELSHZ-10
468               NABON-13      BELSHZ-11
467               NABON-14      BELSHZ-12
466               NABON-15      BELSHZ-13
465               NABON-16      BELSHZ-14
464               NABON-17      BELSHZ-15
463 (MEDO-PERSIA) NABON-18      BELSHZ-16
462               NABON-19      BELSHZ-17
461 DAR-MEDE-01
460 DAR-MEDE-02
459 DAR-MEDE-03
458 DAR-MEDE-04
457 DAR-MEDE-05
456 DAR-MEDE-06 
455 DAR-MEDE-07*   CYRUS I-01   END 70-YEAR EXILE
454 DAR-MEDE-08*   CYRUS I-02
453 DAR-MEDE-09*   CYRUS I-03
452 DAR-MEDE-10*   CYRUS I-04
451 DAR-MEDE-11*   CYRUS I-05
450 DAR-MEDE-12*   CYRUS I-06
449 DAR-MEDE-13*   CYRUS I-07
448 DAR-MEDE-14*   CYRUS I-08
447                CYRUS I-09
446 CAMBYSES-01   (*Darius-M rules as "governor"
445 CAMBYSES-02     these years, 455-448)
444 CAMBYSES-03
443 CAMBYSES-04
442  CAMBYSES-05
441  CAMBYSES-06
440  CAMBYSES-07
439               DARIUS I-01
438               DARIUS I-02
437  XERXES-01    DARIUS I-03
436  XERXES-02    DARIUS I-04
435  XERXES-03    DARIUS I-05
434  XERXES-04    DARIUS I-06 
     DARIUS DIES IN BATTLE OF MARATHON THIS YEAR.
433  TEMPLE COMPLETED AFTER 22 YEARS.
432  XERXES-06
431  XERXES-07
430  XERXES-08
429  XERXES-09
428  XERXES-10
427  XERXES-11
426  XERXES-12
425  XERXES-13
424  BATTLE OF SALAMIS/
     SPARTA-AGRIVES 30-YEAR PEACE (Herodotus)
--
403  PELOPONNEIAN WAR BEGINS
402  ECLIPSE OCCURS IN GREECE OVER AEGEAN
---
394  SPARTA-ARGIVES 30-YEAR PEACE ENDS (Thucydides)
---
359  ARTAXERXES III BEGINS REIGN
---
331  END OF PERSIAN EMPIRE

Larsguy47 · 04-14-2007, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

It doesn't matter how loud you shout at him, he cannot hear you.

There are none so deaf as who will not hear.

spin

Sorry, the source of the chart has been published many times and in fact is on the net.

If you Google "Groningen Rehov" it's the first thing that pops up:

http://www.rehov.org/Rehov/publicati...%20et%20al.pdf

Sorry you missed previous references. Appreciate your reminding me, sometimes I do miss individual posts.

LG47

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04-14-2007, 01:30 AM	#117
Febble Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Google "Febble" if you need to find me. Posts: 6,547	And I should point out that as the probability that the most probable date is the true date is only a few percent, there is a much higher probability that the true date is some other date than that it is 871.

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