Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sodium · 03-07-2004, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy
Don't claim to know Christian beliefs but you missed an obvious explanation. Mary was foolin around, got knocked up and told everyone that an angel of god did it.

Perhaps, but that discussion would lead us pretty far from the original point. What I'm trying to get at, is whether the traditional idea of Jesus having Mary for a mother and God for a father can be meaningful with what we now know about genetics.

I don't really think this is a devastating point against Christianity. What Magus suggests is a solution that works on its own terms. And yet, it means that if we say that Mary is Jesus's mother, we're saying something a little different than we might expect. And God seems more like Jesus's designer than his father.

Ben Willott · 03-08-2004, 05:46 AM

Quote:

I don't really think this is a devastating point against Christianity.

I'm not so sure. It's been hinted by magus55 that jesus didn't have any DNA.

No human DNA = not a human. God may as well have sent a talking pumpkin down to earth to die for humankind's sins. Since this is off topic, I'll stop now.

Starboy · 03-08-2004, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sodium
I don't really think this is a devastating point against Christianity. What Magus suggests is a solution that works on its own terms. And yet, it means that if we say that Mary is Jesus's mother, we're saying something a little different than we might expect. And God seems more like Jesus's designer than his father.

The story is way past that. If there are any designers here it is man. I would expect a story with god in it to be much more alien to human existence than that quant little story found in the gospels.

Starboy

braces_for_impact · 03-08-2004, 06:20 AM

Isn't that half the problem though? Once you invoke miracles, they become a "get out of jail free card" with respect to defending Jesus' humanity.

Starboy · 03-08-2004, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by braces_for_impact
Isn't that half the problem though? Once you invoke miracles, they become a "get out of jail free card" with respect to defending Jesus' humanity.

It's not the miracle part that is the dead give away. It is how prosaic those miracles are. Moses supposedly parted a sea and he was not god. Jesus didn't do anything that any good magician could have done. Now if there were something alien in the story, something that is in no other stories prior to the time, then perhaps you could make a case that something unusual did happen but there is none. The story is all to constrained by human imagination to be anything more than a human concoction.

Starboy

mike all together · 03-08-2004, 06:56 AM

Arguing logical things like this when talking about Jesus/religion is like saying there's no way Will Smith could realistically fly that spaceship in Independance Day, but be totally content with the fact there's an invisible space ship there to begin with.

..okay, so maybe that analogy didn't make sense. But still...!

Starboy · 03-08-2004, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Fornal
Arguing logical things like this when talking about Jesus/religion is like saying there's no way Will Smith could realistically fly that spaceship in Independance Day, but be totally content with the fact there's an invisible space ship there to begin with.

..okay, so maybe that analogy didn't make sense. But still...!

Which is why it is obvious that ID4 was a human concoction.

Starboy

House of Games · 03-08-2004, 07:44 AM

Puhlease!!!

Magus55 · 03-08-2004, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Willott
I'm not so sure. It's been hinted by magus55 that jesus didn't have any DNA.

No human DNA = not a human. God may as well have sent a talking pumpkin down to earth to die for humankind's sins. Since this is off topic, I'll stop now.

I never said Jesus didn't have DNA. I just said He didn't have, DNA from a mortal, sinful parent.

Magus55 · 03-08-2004, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy
The story is way past that. If there are any designers here it is man. I would expect a story with god in it to be much more alien to human existence than that quant little story found in the gospels.

Starboy

Your expectations have no bearing on truth.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-08-2004, 06:20 AM	#14
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	Isn't that half the problem though? Once you invoke miracles, they become a "get out of jail free card" with respect to defending Jesus' humanity.

03-08-2004, 06:56 AM	#16
mike all together Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Folding@Home: +986,947▲ Posts: 958	Arguing logical things like this when talking about Jesus/religion is like saying there's no way Will Smith could realistically fly that spaceship in Independance Day, but be totally content with the fact there's an invisible space ship there to begin with. ..okay, so maybe that analogy didn't make sense. But still...!

03-08-2004, 07:44 AM	#18
House of Games Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Niskayuna,N.Y. Posts: 171	Puhlease!!!

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.