ligesh

If by funny and incorrect you mean something you personally do not like or understand, then yes it is, but other than that all I have done is present statistical data as collected from the prisons.



I have been involved in too many flame wars in too many atheist forums, and I know the mentality of the 'average' atheist, but it is also true that the Christian forums are less tolerant than atheists. Of course, it is a continuum. I wouldn't say that atheist are 'tolerant', but rather they are more so than their theistic counterparts.

After all they are all human, (which means being a prick is their birthright).

The statistics indicate that Gods encourage crime. Or at least there is a strong correlation between belief and crime, which could be caused by a third factor, that is both responsible for belief AND criminal behavior.

We can maybe consider that both belief in God, AND crime are caused by poverty, but I think even that isn't sufficient to explain this.



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:: Ligesh :: http://ligesh.com

ligesh

"Correlation does not equal causation" Do people still use that truism. I mean, it is some 1000s of years old, and IMPLIED in every correlation data. I showed you statistics that show correlation; this correlation doesn't show causation, but my theory pretty much clearly states that Gods encourage crime.

I have explained this in previous mail:

If it is not causation, then you will have to find a third cause that is responsible for BOTH crime and belief, like poverty, or lack of education and so on. But I don't think even that can explain for the figure of 40 times.

ligesh

So we need to conduct studies that will actually take into account the education, and find the rates when education is kept constant. But my theory is brand new, and we don't have studies that actually keeps all other factors constant, and finds out the criminality based on the person's strength of belief alone.

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:: Ligesh :: http://ligesh.com

Stumpjumper

Ligesh

This is my last post on this because I am afraid we are severely derailing Tomboymom's thread but I think you also need to take into account that many people convert to religion in prison because of faith based rehabilitation programs.

I remember seeing a special on that during the last election cycle: http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=2333

ligesh

That study has not been replicated elsewhere, and they themselves admit that the conclusions are tentative. It is pretty much strange in the face of believers being 40 times as more likely to be in prisons, and also, since the population already shows a strong belief in God, what exactly do they achieve?

I am proposing a theory on why people want to believe that their prayers are indeed being answered, even though it is clear that it is palpably absurd that God is sitting there taking care of your petty materialistic wants. I have given you a simple evolutionary reason for why people will EVOLVE a tendency to contrive their experience so as to make themselves believe that their prayers have indeed been answered.

It is only when you questioned my theory that I presented you the statistical data. So the conceit that your prayers are effective is adaptive, and thus humans will evolve a mentality that would interpret their experience to mean that it is so.

So this in effect, cleanly and properly answerers Tomboymom's original question.

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Prayers won't work, and cannot work. But people will EVOLVE the trait of convincing themselves that it is potent.
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:: Ligesh :: http://ligesh.com

ligesh

Now you are really making me laugh. Bible/Koran are rape/murder manuals. (This is a statement by Pinker). Kill little children if they mock you. Massacre older men and women, and rape the virgins. Destroy entire towns for no other reason other than to acquire their livestocks and women.

What's the message preached by Bible? There is no morality in Bible. Your statement is ACTUALLY funny.

The Isrealites thought that Yahweh was actively helping them massacre innocent women and children. A Jihadi believes that it is duty to rape/kill innocents to further the cause of his all-loving God, and for this heinous act, his all-loving god will reward him with 72 perpetual virgins. So, if people can entertain such absurd concepts, why not a criminal think that God will help him rob?

This is no true-scotsman fallacy. I actually don't have a problem with this, but the data contradicts your statement. People in prison DO believe in God, and I don't think anyone who has read Bible will feel any guilt when murdering or raping innocent people.

Hitler belived that he was doing God's work. But you are totally mistaking my statement. I don't say that God will make do evil things, but rather God will give you COURAGE to take risks. Stalin did not take direct physical risks, and of course, you are pointing to 1 single person against my whole statistics.

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:: Ligesh :: http://ligesh.com

Stumpjumper

You've been reading that atheist Bible again have you?

I do not doubt that a majority of prison inmates are theists however I do not agree with your theory on the causation of criminality.

Hitler was doing God's work?

"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew." (Adolph Hitler)

Hitler probably read the same Bible as you

ligesh

This is pretty much an old argument. Hitler wasn't a fan of organized Christianity or the established Church, but he strongly believed in God. Even in tabletalk he never criticizes God, but rather does demonstrate a bit of loathing toward organized religion. But that is pretty much standard among many believers. In fact, you would then rank Hitler among Martin Luther, who was also someone who believed in God, but hated the Catholic Church.

Nazi's carried around a sign that said "Gott mits uns", which means "God is with us", but again no Christian has ever claimed that Hitler as an atheist. Christians too have disowned him, but they do accept that Hitler was not an atheist, and that's pretty much my statement.

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:: Ligesh :: http://ligesh.com

dmarker

Most all wars have been land grabs. If you read the old testament closely, the war stories are all the same. The Israelites come upon a tribe with a nice tract of land, god tells them that the land is theirs and to invade and take it, the Israelites do so with varying success.

I don't see the practice of land grabbing changing in the future; just the reasons for it.

Stumpjumper

On that I agree. The conquest of canaan was a land grab, if it ever happened in the way it was written, and the authors of the historical books most likely added the command from God to make themselves look and feel better. They might have legitimately thought that YHWH wanted them to have the land but that's still no excuse for the land grab.