stephan huller

In my never ending quest for the stupidest avatar possible I think I have succeeded.

stephan huller

In our continuing examination of the two Josephan narratives that have come down to us in Greek and Latin. The next section of Pseudo-Hegesippus reads:

With these words he kindled the courage of the soldiers, who repairing the wall the most part withdrew themselves from the siege through the broken openings. For already a lack of food was at hand, and the broken walls were thought about to yield to the siege machines, furthermore there was but one (water) well within the city and that was very close to the walls. Which thing put them in great fear and they slipped away in great numbers. Those who truly thought (the fight) should be continued fought obstinately. In the meantime the Romans undermining the highest tower overthrew it with great force, by which misfortune the city was greatly alarmed, all were disturbed and fearing the ruin of the entire city. From which Chares sick in body, making sounds of great terror breathless from fright accomplished (his) death. The Romans however having broken the city open refrained from entry, until Titus having returned and aroused by the smart of his father's danger rushed into the city with a few and inflicted a great slaughter on the Jews. However those who were in the higher elevations rolling rocks prohibited the Romans from access, they hurled darts violently, and shot arrows. By the Jews rocks pushed forward were easily rolled down, missiles came through, arrows came down not without danger to those whom they struck. Missiles thrown by the Romans against the higher elevations of the mountain were ineffective, the attempt was ineffectual and dangerous to themselves, when suddenly a storm of wind arose and bent back the arrows of the Jews, repelled their darts; and indeed carried those against the enemy which the Roman army was hurling. Thus oppressed by the restraints of their own elements and the commotions of the winds in the final sacking of the captured city all whosoever who were discovered there perished . We learned four thousands however to have been killed by the Romans, five thousands to have perished at a precipice, grace to have been granted to no age. [Pseudo-Hegesippus 4.3]

The parallel section in Jewish War reads:

So Vespasian encouraged his army by this speech; but for the people of Gamala, it happened that they took courage for a little while, upon such great and unaccountable success as they had had. But when they considered with themselves that they had now no hopes of any terms of accommodation, and reflecting upon it that they could not get away, and that their provisions began already to be short, they were exceedingly cast down, and their courage failed them; yet did they not neglect what might be for their preservation, so far as they were able, but the most courageous among them guarded those parts of the wall that were beaten down, while the more infirm did the same to the rest of the wall that still remained round the city. And as the Romans raised their banks, and attempted to get into the city a second time, a great many of them fled out of the city through impracticable valleys, where no guards were placed, as also through subterraneous caverns; while those that were afraid of being caught, and for that reason staid in the city, perished for want of food; for what food they had was brought together from all quarters, and reserved for the fighting men.

And these were the hard circumstances that the people of Gamala were in. But now Vespasian went about other work by the by, during this siege, and that was to subdue those that had seized upon Mount Tabor, a place that lies in the middle between the great plain and Scythopolis, whose top is elevated as high as thirty furlongs and is hardly to be ascended on its north side; its top is a plain of twenty-six furlongs, and all encompassed with a wall. Now Josephus erected this so long a wall in forty days' time, and furnished it with other materials, and with water from below, for the inhabitants only made use of rain water. As therefore there was a great multitude of people gotten together upon this mountain, Vespasian sent Placidus with six hundred horsemen thither. Now, as it was impossible for him to ascend the mountain, he invited many of them to peace, by the offer of his right hand for their security, and of his intercession for them. Accordingly they came down, but with a treacherous design, as well as he had the like treacherous design upon them on the other side; for Placidus spoke mildly to them, as aiming to take them, when he got them into the plain; they also came down, as complying with his proposals, but it was in order to fall upon him when he was not aware of it: however, Placidus's stratagem was too hard for theirs; for when the Jews began to fight, he pretended to run away, and when they were in pursuit of the Romans, he enticed them a great way along the plain, and then made his horsemen turn back; whereupon he beat them, and slew a great number of them, and cut off the retreat of the rest of the multitude, and hindered their return. So they left Tabor, and fled to Jerusalem, while the people of the country came to terms with him, for their water failed them, and so they delivered up the mountain and themselves to Placidus.

But of the people of Gamala, those that were of the bolder sort fled away and hid themselves, while the more infirm perished by famine; but the men of war sustained the siege till the two and twentieth day of the month Hyperberetmus, [Tisri,] when three soldiers of the fifteenth legion, about the morning watch, got under a high tower that was near them, and undermined it, without making any noise; nor when they either came to it, which was in the night time, nor when they were under it, did those that guarded it perceive them. These soldiers then upon their coming avoided making a noise, and when they had rolled away five of its strongest stones, they went away hastily; whereupon the tower fell down on a sudden, with a very great noise, and its guard fell headlong with it; so that those that kept guard at other places were under such disturbance, that they ran away; the Romans also slew many of those that ventured to oppose them, among whom was Joseph, who was slain by a dart, as he was running away over that part of the wall that was broken down: but as those that were in the city were greatly aftrighted at the noise, they ran hither and thither, and a great consternation fell upon them, as though all the enemy had fallen in at once upon them. Then it was that Chares, who was ill, and under the physician's hands, gave up the ghost, the fear he was in greatly contributing to make his distemper fatal to him. But the Romans so well remembered their former ill success, that they did not enter the city till the three and twentieth day of the forementioned month.

At which time Titus, who was now returned, out of the indignation he had at the destruction the Romans had undergone while he was absent, took two hundred chosen horsemen and some footmen with him, and entered without noise into the city.Now as the watch perceived that he was coming, they made a noise, and betook themselves to their arms; and as that his entrance was presently known to those that were in the city, some of them caught hold of their children and their wives, and drew them after them, and fled away to the citadel, with lamentations and cries, while others of them went to meet Titus, and were killed perpetually; but so many of them as were hindered from running up to the citadel, not knowing what in the world to do, fell among the Roman guards, while the groans of those that were killed were prodigiously great every where, and blood ran down over all the lower parts of the city, from the upper. But then Vespasian himself came to his assistance against those that had fled to the citadel, and brought his whole army with him; now this upper part of the city was every way rocky, and difficult of ascent, and elevated to a vast altitude, and very full of people on all sides, and encompassed with precipices, whereby the Jews cut off those that came up to them, and did much mischief to others by their darts, and the large stones which they rolled down upon them, while they were themselves so high that the enemy's darts could hardly reach them. However, there arose such a Divine storm against them as was instrumental to their destruction; this carried the Roman darts upon them, and made those which they threw return back, and drove them obliquely away from them; nor could the Jews indeed stand upon their precipices, by reason of the violence of the wind, having nothing that was stable to stand upon, nor could they see those that were ascending up to them; so the Romans got up and surrounded them, and some they slew before they could defend themselves, and others as they were delivering up themselves; and the remembrance of those that were slain at their former entrance into the city increased their rage against them now; a great number also of those that were surrounded on every side, and despaired of escaping, threw their children and their wives, and themselves also, down the precipices, into the valley beneath, which, near the citadel, had been dug hollow to a vast depth; but so it happened, that the anger of the Romans appeared not to be so extravagant as was the madness of those that were now taken, while the Romans slew but four thousand, whereas the number of those that had thrown themselves down was found to be five thousand: nor did any one escape except two women, who were the daughters of Philip, and Philip himself was the son of a certain eminent man called Jacimus, who had been general of king Agrippa's army; and these did therefore escape, because they lay concealed from the rage of the Romans when the city was taken; for otherwise they spared not so much as the infants, of which many were flung down by them from the citadel. And thus was Gamala taken on the three and twentieth day of the month Hyperberetens, (Tisri,) whereas the city had first revolted on the four and twentieth day of the month Gorpieus (Elul). [Jewish War 4.1.7 - 10]

There are many little things to notice about the two narratives but most important is the fact that IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ARGUE that Pseudo-Hegesippus is a 'copy' of Jewish War. It represents nothing short of a related but ultimately different manuscript tradition. The story of the siege of mount Tabor appears in Hegesippus AFTER THE NEXT SECTION. There is no logical reason to believe that the Latin translator just 'decided' to move the section. We see time and again that Pseudo-Hegesippus represents a slightly earlier manuscript tradition.

And about this account of the siege of Tiberias. One of the reason that we should suspect that it was added later by someone other than Josephus the Jewish general of the first century is because you'd expect a commander to know a thing or too about mount Tabor. This section COULD NOT HAVE BEEN written by 'first century Josephus' or anyone who had ever seen mount Tabor with his own eyes. This because as many travelers who visited the HILL have noted "Josephus is not consistent with numbers. For example, he says Mount Tabor is "thirty stadia" (18,200 feet), when in reality the mountain is only 1,920 feet." Notice again that there is an early tradition in Christianity that WRONGLY identifies the 'high mountain' of the Transfiguration with Tabor. It must be 'second century Josephus' and his claims about an 18,000 foot mountain in Galilee that caused ignorant Europeans to think this was the location of the scene. Ephrem seems to hint that the Marcionites thought Gerizim was the location (2849 feet).

We have already noted the confusion about Chares that seems to derive from a misreading of the early hypomnema related to Vita. Jewish War has more information from the hypomemna regarding Philip the son of Jacimus which does not appear in Hegesippus.

Notice also the introduction of the supernatural regarding the 'divine wind' assisting the Romans again. It is impossible to believe that Josephus included these details in his original hypomnema. The supernatural explanation is stronger in Jewish War than in Pseudo-Hegesippus. This element was introduced by 'second century Josephus' as part of a much more overtly religious reworking of the original material.

stephan huller

We continue with our section by section comparison of the two surviving Josephan narratives - Pseudo-Hegesippus and Jewish War. In our last section of Jewish War we saw the insertion of a ridiculous narrative estimating the Mount Tabor to be over 18,000 feet high! We see the same silly story introduced in the parallel Hegesippus narrative AFTER what follows here - i.e. the story of a certain 'John' who became a rebel commander in Jerusalem:

Thus far Gischala alone from the parts of Galilaea had not turned the enemy against itself, since contented with their fruits the more peaceful natures of its inhabitants seeing that (they were) a rural people manifested nothing bellicose, but by the communion of many, who employed their life in brigandage, even the inclinations of the milder (persons) were corrupted by wicked practices. There was besides a man, Levis Iohannes by name, a native, a plague of (his) people, second to none of the cunning in craft, knowing no equal in depravity, to whom a disposition of doing harm never lacked, sometime however a want of means of exercising iniquity was an impediment--which however I shall define not at all plainly I know whether poverty made him or hindered him, cunning in fraud, skilled in deceiving, trained to seek trust through lies and to ally credulity to concord, who thinks deceit is a virtue and would consider (it) tasteful to cheat those dearest (to him), ready to conspire impetuous to daring vigorous in performing, a trouble maker in leisure a deserter in danger, arrogant of good looks accustomed to brigandage, which when he was unable to conform to he joined however for the sake of obtaining control. Therefore a restless disposition, ready boldness supported him rather than deliberation, and wealth for uniting a band of profligates. Hence Vespasian discovered the people of the mentioned city with his faction to be roused up to war, in order that he should not fatigue the whole army he directed (his) son Titus with one thousand horsemen accompanied by whom he should draw near the city. But when he saw the walls crowded with people, he said himself to be astonished because they followed their example to make war, from whose destruction they ought to have come to their senses. Be it so however that the first trials have something of a presumption, what did the destruction of the hope of everyone show? The hopes of liberty were certainly pardonable in the beginning, however perseverance is not attainable by entreaty in extreme and hopeless circumstances. For those who are not influenced by an example of human kindness, by diligent warning of words, against them not words but arms are necessary. Having confidence in walls as if they would protect anyone against the valor of the Romans. Whatever else those shut in are able to bring forward, are not the besiegers able to stretch out (before it) except that the foolhardy are in captivity? No one had the opportunity to speak. The predatory band had seized the entire circuit of the walls. Iohannes was on guard lest anyone should invite the Romans in a friendly parley. And so he himself snatched away a report of a conversation, saying freely that he himself had undertaken the management of common concerns and had not neglected making use of a trial, if perhaps he was persuaded of its usefulness, or was satisfied with those things which brought forward, but he was prohibited by the law of his country, since there remained a day of the sacred week, to treat of conditions of peace, because forbidden that he should move the arms, thus even it was not allowed to take measures about peace on holidays. For indeed (it is) sacrilege for those forced to address the task at least with words, and not unpunished those who did the forcing. Himself to ask the indulgence of one day, a postponement so small as not to be in any way an impediment. Nor indeed with the enemy surrounding them was flight possible for those shut in. Conditions of peace to be offered him? such an equable option that fear was absent, him to be urged in the meantime that it was not necessary for considerations of peace for those for whom it was a moral obligation to that the law of the country be prevaricated. Such a generous offering of peace was arrived at that he who beyond hope freely offered peace, lest anyone should make a test, reserved his own laws for any about to attempt escape. Considering these things binding without treachery Titus sounded acceptance and recalled from the walls those whom he had brought with him. Thus Johannes having obtained the opportunity of fleeing departed in the dead of night with most of his forces. The women besides followed him departing. But the farther the men progressed the more women and children were left behind and abandoned by their men the frightened women regarded the road. And when already they lost their own men from sight, they thought the enemy to be at hand, trembling at every sound, if anyone should run, the miserable women were turned back, themselves to be sought, fearing to be thrown into chains, as if those whom they feared were already present. Titus in accordance with the convention, the sun already pouring down, hastened to the city with the army. The gates are opened, The people come out with exultation and receive the Romans with joy and eagerness, rejoicing the pestilential man to have gone away. Him to have fled during the night, the opportunity of free judgment to have been given to themselves, themselves to pray pardon that his fleeing not be a crime upon themselves, whom they were not able to hold without their own destruction. He satisfied with the delaying of punishment and the swiftness of accomplishing the task forthwith sent a great many to seize Johannes, if by chance they could overtake him. He having entered the city content to manage disturbers of the peace more by threats than by punishment pardoned everyone, so that no one aroused by hatred or domestic tasks should lead the blameless into ill-will and should strike with the fierceness of a severe crime, since it is much more tolerable to leave to the conscience of a fearful participant that which is uncertain than to condemn an innocent. For often fear corrects the guilty, punishment however of the innocent is without any remedy of correction. And so Johannes was not found by those whom Titus had sent, but the children and women who were following him were discovered. Up to two thousand almost were killed, three thousand however of infirm age and sex, when satiety of killing was achieved, were sentenced to servitude. He assigned a military guard to the state. And so all of Galilaea was brought into Roman power. For even the mountain Tabyrius, whose altitude is thirty stadia, the very highest point of the level country lies at thirty three stadia, from scarcity of water deserted by some, pardon having been sought surrendered to the Romans by others, although by the valor also and diligence of Placidus, to whom this task had been committed by Vespasian, the entire crowd of refugees, he followed while going away and by cunning earnestly urged them to retrace their steps, surrounded in the middle of the plain lost their place of refuge, found death. [Pseudo-Hegesippus 4.4]

The parallel section in Jewish War reads:

Now no place of Galilee remained to be taken but the small city of Gischala, whose multitude yet were desirous of peace; for they were generally husbandmen, and always applied themselves to cultivate the fruits of the earth. However, there were a great number that belonged to a band of robbers, that were already corrupted, and had crept in among them, and some of the governing part of the citizens were sick of the same distemper. It was John, the son of a certain man whose name was Levi, that drew them into this rebellion, and encouraged them in it. He was a cunning knave, and of a temper that could put on various shapes; very rash in expecting great things, and very sagacious in bringing about what he hoped for. It was known to every body that he was fond of war, in order to thrust himself into authority; and the seditious part of the people of Gischala were under his management, by whose means the populace, who seemed ready to send ambassadors in order to a surrender, waited for the coming of the Romans in battle-array. Vespasian sent against them Titus, with a thousand horsemen, but withdrew the tenth legion to Scythopolis, while he returned to Cesarea with the two other legions, that he might allow them to refresh themselves after their long and hard campaign, thinking withal that the plenty which was in those cities would improve their bodies and their spirits, against the difficulties they were to go through afterwards; for he saw there would be occasion for great pains about Jerusalem, which was not yet taken, because it was the royal city, and the principal city of the whole nation, and because those that had run away from the war in other places got all together thither. It was also naturally strong, and the walls that were built round it made him not a little concerned about it. Moreover, he esteemed the men that were in it to be so courageous and bold, that even without the consideration of the walls, it would be hard to subdue them; for which reason he took care of and exercised his soldiers beforehand for the work, as they do wrestlers before they begin their undertaking.

Now Titus, as he rode ut to Gischala, found it would be easy for him to take the city upon the first onset; but knew withal, that if he took it by force, the multitude would be destroyed by the soldiers without mercy. (Now he was already satiated with the shedding of blood, and pitied the major part, who would then perish, without distinction, together with the guilty.) So he was rather desirous the city might be surrendered up to him on terms. Accordingly, when he saw the wall full of those men that were of the corrupted party, he said to them, - That he could not but wonder what it was they depended on, when they alone staid to fight the Romans, after every other city was taken by them, especially when they have seen cities much better fortified than theirs is overthrown by a single attack upon them; while as many as have intrusted themselves to the security of the Romans' right hands, which he now offers to them, without regarding their former insolence, do enjoy their own possessions in safety; for that while they had hopes of recovering their liberty, they might be pardoned; but that their continuance still in their opposition, when they saw that to be impossible, was inexcusable; for that if they will not comply with such humane offers, and right hands for security, they should have experience of such a war as would spare nobody, and should soon be made sensible that their wall would be but a trifle, when battered by the Roman machines; in depending on which they demonstrate themselves to be the only Galileans that were no better than arrogant slaves and captives.

Now none of the populace durst not only make a reply, but durst not so much as get upon the wall, for it was all taken up by the robbers, who were also the guard at the gates, in order to prevent any of the rest from going out, in order to propose terms of submission, and from receiving any of the horsemen into the city. But John returned Titus this answer: That for himself he was content to hearken to his proposals, and that he would either persuade or force those that refused them. Yet he said that Titus ought to have such regard to the Jewish law, as to grant them leave to celebrate that day, which was the seventh day of the week, on which it was unlawful not only to remove their arms, but even to treat of peace also; and that even the Romans were not ignorant how the period of the seventh day was among them a cessation from all labors; and that he who should compel them to transgress the law about that day would be equally guilty with those that were compelled to transgress it: and that this delay could be of no disadvantage to him; for why should any body think of doing any thing in the night, unless it was to fly away? which he might prevent by placing his camp round about them; and that they should think it a great point gained, if they might not be obliged to transgress the laws of their country; and that it would be a right thing for him, who designed to grant them peace, without their expectation of such a favor, to preserve the laws of those they saved inviolable. Thus did this man put a trick upon Titus, not so much out of regard to the seventh day as to his own preservation, for he was afraid lest he should be quite deserted if the city should be taken, and had his hopes of life in that night, and in his flight therein. Now this was the work of God, who therefore preserved this John, that he might bring on the destruction of Jerusalem; as also it was his work that Titus was prevailed with by this pretense for a delay, and that he pitched his camp further off the city at Cydessa. This Cydessa was a strong Mediterranean village of the Tyrians, which always hated and made war against the Jews; it had also a great number of inhabitants, and was well fortified, which made it a proper place for such as were enemies to the Jewish nation.

Now, in the night time, when John saw that there was no Roman guard about the city, he seized the opportunity directly, and, taking with him not only the armed men that where about him, but a considerable number of those that had little to do, together with their families, he fled to Jerusalem. And indeed, though the man was making haste to get away, and was tormented with fears of being a captive, or of losing his life, yet did he prevail with himself to take out of the city along with him a multitude of women and children, as far as twenty furlongs; but there he left them as he proceeded further on his journey, where those that were left behind made sad lamentations; for the farther every one of them was come from his own people, the nearer they thought themselves to be to their enemies. They also affrighted themselves with this thought, that those who would carry them into captivity were just at hand, and still turned themselves back at the mere noise they made themselves in this their hasty flight, as if those from whom they fled were just upon them. Many also of them missed their ways, and the earnestness of such as aimed to outgo the rest threw down many of them. And indeed there was a miserable destruction made of the women and children; while some of them took courage to call their husbands and kinsmen back, and to beseech them, with the bitterest lamentations, to stay for them; but John's exhortation, who cried out to them to save themselves, and fly away, prevailed. He said also, that if the Romans should seize upon those whom they left behind, they would be revenged on them for it. So this multitude that run thus away was dispersed abroad, according as each of them was able to run, one faster or slower than another.

Now on the next day Titus came to the wall, to make the agreement; whereupon the people opened their gates to him, and came out to him, with their children and wives, and made acclamations of joy to him, as to one that had been their benefactor, and had delivered the city out of custody; they also informed him of John's flight, and besought him to spare them, and to come in, and bring the rest of those that were for innovations to punishment. But Titus, not so much regarding the supplications of the people, sent part of his horsemen to pursue after John, but they could not overtake him, for he was gotten to Jerusalem before; they also slew six thousand of the women and children who went out with him, but returned back, and brought with them almost three thousand. However, Titus was greatly displeased that he had not been able to bring this John, who had deluded him, to punishment; yet he had captives enough, as well as the corrupted part of the city, to satisfy his anger, when it missed of John. So he entered the city in the midst of acclamations of joy; and when he had given orders to the soldiers to pull down a small part of the wall, as of a city taken in war, he repressed those that had disturbed the city rather by threatenings than by executions; for he thought that many would accuse innocent persons, out of their own private animosities and quarrels, if he should attempt to distinguish those that were worthy of punishment from the rest; and that it was better to let a guilty person alone in his fears, that to destroy with him any one that did not deserve it; for that probably such a one might be taught prudence, by the fear of the punishment he had deserved, and have a shame upon him for his former offenses, when he had been forgiven; but that the punishment of such as have been once put to death could never be retrieved. However, he placed a garrison in the city for its security, by which means he should restrain those that were for innovations, and should leave those that were peaceably disposed in greater security. And thus was all Galilee taken, but this not till after it had cost the Romans much pains before it could be taken by them. [Jewish War 4.2.1 - 5]

It is difficult to understand why Pseudo-Hegesippus would only introduce John of Gischala at the very end of the Galilean campaign. This is especially bizarre when John appears almost from the beginning of Vita and Jewish War. Pseudo-Hegesippus must be closer to the original hypomnema. Vita was reworked to not only include John but make him more prominent than even Simon.

Why was this? It is difficult to say but the fact that Hegesippus only introduces John AT THE LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT and in an otherwise forgettable narrative is quite perplexing. Gischala or Gush Halav as it is known in rabbinic sources WAS NOT destroyed by the Romans. This is very important as 'Josephus' can't get around the fact that Gush Halav offered no resistance to the Romans. Archaeological evidence suggests that the town continued to exist for at least another millennium.

What we do see instead is a stupid story about a 'John' that is known only to the Josephan narrative. 'John' pretends to observe the Sabbath but really only uses it as a pretext to escape from the Romans. Does anyone really believe that the Romans would be this courteous? Rather it is the editors of Josephus who need to pin the blame for the destruction of the temple on someone else. Why not Simon? I think Josephus and Simon were brothers. But more on that later.

It is also noteworthy that Jerome contradicts a source as important as Acts and declares that Paul's family came from Gischala in Galilee and moved to Tarsus (Comm. ad Philem. 23; De vir. illus. 5). He is clearly reconciling two contradictory traditions. Is it likely that two towering figures from the same age would come from the same insignificant village? I think there is some subtext here I just can't put my finger on yet.

And one other thing. I hadn't compared the two Mount Tabor narratives in my last post but aside from some basic similarities and both of them claiming that it was 18,000 feet tall and there can be no doubt that they both developed from separate literary traditions. Not only do they appear in different parts of Book Four we see Hegesippus write:

And so all of Galilaea was brought into Roman power. For even the mountain Tabyrius, whose altitude is thirty stadia, the very highest point of the level country lies at thirty three stadia, from scarcity of water deserted by some, pardon having been sought surrendered to the Romans by others, although by the valor also and diligence of Placidus, to whom this task had been committed by Vespasian, the entire crowd of refugees, he followed while going away and by cunning earnestly urged them to retrace their steps, surrounded in the middle of the plain lost their place of refuge, found death.

And the parallel narrative WHICH APPEARS EARLIER in Jewish War reads:

And these were the hard circumstances that the people of Gamala were in. But now Vespasian went about other work by the by, during this siege, and that was to subdue those that had seized upon Mount Tabor, a place that lies in the middle between the great plain and Scythopolis, whose top is elevated as high as thirty furlongs and is hardly to be ascended on its north side; its top is a plain of twenty-six furlongs, and all encompassed with a wall. Now Josephus erected this so long a wall in forty days' time, and furnished it with other materials, and with water from below, for the inhabitants only made use of rain water. As therefore there was a great multitude of people gotten together upon this mountain, Vespasian sent Placidus with six hundred horsemen thither. Now, as it was impossible for him to ascend the mountain, he invited many of them to peace, by the offer of his right hand for their security, and of his intercession for them. Accordingly they came down, but with a treacherous design, as well as he had the like treacherous design upon them on the other side; for Placidus spoke mildly to them, as aiming to take them, when he got them into the plain; they also came down, as complying with his proposals, but it was in order to fall upon him when he was not aware of it: however, Placidus's stratagem was too hard for theirs; for when the Jews began to fight, he pretended to run away, and when they were in pursuit of the Romans, he enticed them a great way along the plain, and then made his horsemen turn back; whereupon he beat them, and slew a great number of them, and cut off the retreat of the rest of the multitude, and hindered their return. So they left Tabor, and fled to Jerusalem, while the people of the country came to terms with him, for their water failed them, and so they delivered up the mountain and themselves to Placidus.

Hegesippus also gives very specific numbers about the numbers of people killed at Gischala:

And so Johannes was not found by those whom Titus had sent, but the children and women who were following him were discovered. Up to two thousand almost were killed, three thousand however of infirm age and sex, when satiety of killing was achieved, were sentenced to servitude. He assigned a military guard to the state.

Jewish Wars does as well but they are again very different from Hegesippus:

they also slew six thousand of the women and children who went out with him, but returned back, and brought with them almost three thousand.

We have demonstrated a consistent pattern of differing numbers between the two texts. Hegesippus and Jewish War represent separate traditions from a lost original 'second century' Josephan grandfather text.

andrewcriddle

I've checked in Stahlin and the manuscript reads ,AWLG' ie 1833 years.

Andrew Criddle

stephan huller

We continue our section by section comparison of the two narratives and stumble onto something which caught me by complete surprise. Pseudo-Josephus preserves what must be considered another very early part of the narrative which represents nothing short of the original 'glue' used by the synergoi to hold together the narrative. Laqueur and Cohen have often speculated that Jewish War was developed from a text related to Vita. Vita ends its narrative in 67 CE. I have always suspected that Jewish War is a composite of this 'hypomnema' and a reworking of Justus of Tiberias's Chronicle. This lost section found now only in Hegesippus seems to imply that the editors are using a new source after the end of Galilean campaign. We read:

Up to this point it has been permissible to wander about, while we occupy our pen with the contagion of the sacred temple founded by our ancestors and of the sacred law and with those fleeing around other cities. But already it is time that we take up those things that were done at Jerusalem relying not upon memory, but so that we do not seem to have denied the administration of the law of our fatherland, or of the pain of our ancient culture. There will be perhaps in these a shadow not truth, but however the shadow points out the track of the truth. For the shadow has the features of the picture, it does not have the brightness, nor is it carried out to perfection, but it portrays the future to those observing carefully. And thus the less the image charms, the more it attracts thanks. Whence it was decided by a witness of things to destroy the old things, to found new things so that they should follow the truth who did not follow the phantoms of faithlessness through difficulties. [Pseudo-Hegesippus 4.5]

This newly discovered passage (new to me at least) does more to challenge the authority of 'Josephus' than anything written in the study of the Josephan corpus in history. The writer is CLEARLY indicating that his use of ONE SOURCE has ended at this point and he is using SOMETHING ELSE which is considered BY HIS OWN ADMISSION something less reliable - i.e. (according to my estimation) something NOT WRITTEN by Josephus but by a less authoritative source.

My guess is that this source is Justus of Tiberias Chronicle greatly (and imaginatively) modified for a specific purpose.

This is a red letter day. This is the very reason that we went section by section through the text in the first place. I am going to Starbucks to celebrate ...

stephan huller

andrewcriddle wrote:

That's why I appreciate having people like Andrew visit this site. This is very useful information. Thank you for taking the time to look that up.

Let me also make two small notes of my own that I have not made clear enough in this thread. The English translation I am using of Pseudo-Hegesippus is by Blocker which is online thanks to Roger Pearse. The translator says this about his work:

The other is that as I have went through the comparative analysis between Pseudo-Hegesippus and Jewish War I am more convinced than every that it represents a separate line of transmission back to an original second century grandfather text that was known to Clement and identified as a second 'Josephus the Jew' who published his work in 147 CE.

I still think the author may have been a Christian but it would seem that I think the title of the thread should have read "Did Our Josephan Corpus Begin as a SECOND CENTURY Forgery Only to be 'Corrected' Later?" The oldest strata of the work seems to be more interested in reshaping Judaism without specifically offering up Christianity as the tonic. I may come across evidence of this LATER or EARLIER in the Josephan narrative. I am only seeing that what I have seen so far only suggests the author was attempting to offer up a 'criticism' of Judaism as practiced by contemporary extremists in the bar Kochba revolt and projecting that to the Josephus's original hypomnema and developing the narrative accordingly.

I am still very suspicious of Polycarp as the original author owing to the specific 'correction' against the para-suicidal example of Saul running through the narrative. The author as we saw points to Moses example - i.e. God announcing that it was time for Moses to die. This logic appears in the Acts of John (where John literally takes out a shovel and falls into his grave). It also seems to characterize Polycarp's death (and the Harris fragments which connect Polycarp's martyrdom to John's death) especially in light of my efforts to identify Polycarp as Lucian's 'stranger' Peregrinus http://www.radikalkritik.de/Huller_Peregrin.htm (an early draft but one readily accessible for everyone).

Anyway for those that are interested so goes my research ...

maryhelena

Now that makes more sense - keeping the re-writes of 'Josepus' within a Jewish context instead of blaming the Christians.....

stephan huller

I still suspect that the writer might have been a Christian but specifically a Christian convert from Judaism (as Eusebius explicitly references regarding 'Hegesippus' and as Polycarp must have been). I just can't see any specific reference to a 'Christian agenda' per se YET (I am not even half way through the book). The agenda is more clearly a reshaping or a rejection of 'Judaism' and 'the law of the Jews' as conceived throughout the revolutionary period (66 - 135 CE).

This reshaping of Judaism might well take on Christian coloring later. I am just being honest enough to report that I see no evidence yet for that any references to specifically Christian themes at the earliest strata so far in my investigation.

Will be going through to the end and then back to the start of the text just to make sure.

stephan huller

I have also been thinking all day about an amazing coincidence. When Shaye Cohen formulated the theory that a text related to Vita lay behind the existing narrative of Jewish War he identified this ur-text as a 'hypomnema' (see earlier post for specific page references). I have argued that the chronology mentioned in Eusebius associated with a 'Hegesippus the Jew' (Hegessipus being universally acknowledged as a corruption of Josephus) and shown to be one and the same as Clement's chronology associated with 'Josephus the Jew' is at once Cohen's hypomnema. It was according to my understanding a text developed in the second century in light of the bar Kochba revolt.

That text associated with 'Hegesippus' is explicitly identified by Eusebius as his 'hypomnemata.'

The very same term is used by Justin for some early Christian text behind or related to the gospels.

I don't think this can be coincidental but I have to go out for dinner ...

stephan huller

We continue with our side by side critical examination of Pseudo-Hegesippus and Jewish War. In our last post we noted that the last section in Pseudo-Hegesippus has a most important reference, one which can only be described as a preservation of the original second century editor admitting that he is shifting sources to describe what happened during the capture of Jerusalem - i.e. getting away from the original narrative of Josephus and using undoubtedly Justus of Tiberias's chronology which Hegesippus acknowledges aren't exactly accurate - i.e. "there will be perhaps in these a shadow not truth, but however the shadow points out the track of the truth." Compare Photius's report on the Chronology of Justus that "they say that the history which he wrote is for the most part fictitious, and especially in the things by which he details the Roman war against the Jews and the capture of Jerusalem."

In any event, the next section we cite from Pseudo-Hegesippus reads:

Fleeing as we said above, from the districts of Galilaea Johannes took himself to the city of Jerusalem and as if a certain plague infected the minds of a great many, who the leaders of outrages from diverse regions had assembled there as if in a cesspool. For this was in fact for that city the cause of its great destruction, that the incorrigible brought about with their villainies, that most came together there, in which place they believed they would be safer or more arrogantly could pile up their outrages, they were considered to put aside their faith. And so they were received everywhere as if they came from devoted love of the temple to defend it. This was the foremost stroke of misfortune. From this was suppressed the mildness of the few by the haughtiness of the many, from this it progressed into slaughter, since a stranger is less forbearing, from this it was plotted that the solemnities of the law should be be disregarded, the sacerdotal offices should be diverted from the good people to the wicked, because it was not known by men unacquainted not only with religious education but even with knowledge of the law what was sacred. At first were overcome the men of royal stock who were resisting, by which the rest yielded from fear, then were killed, and that the crime should be concealed, those whom they killed without trial assassins having been sent into the prison, they fabricated the same to have been killed for the invented crime of treachery. And so all were terrified by fear. For which powerful men and the blameless Antipas, Levias, and Foras were easily crushed, and already did not dare to resist. From this it progressed to the point that undistinguished and unfit men replaced the leaders of the priests and for whom no reason for meriting the honor was advanced, they contrary to their worth having obtained the priesthood were suborned to every crime in the judgement of those considering the matter. But when the priestly men and especially Ananus senior to the rest, lest through esteem should be granted a prerogative of the highest name, they demand the foremost of the priests be created by a drawing of lots, in which it is considered that the outcome of the drawing is entrusted not to favor but to a divine judgment. In truth they pretended an ancient usage by which it was the custom that those being placed in the first rank of the priesthood were selected by lot, evidently however they worked out a loosening of the law. For when the law of priestly succession selected men for the drawing, they for the sake of appearance alone from the priestly tribe set up one present Eniachim by name and ordered it done by lot. Then a certain Phanis was selected by lot, a village man the son of Samuel, to whom not only was no succession supported by leaders of the priests, but to whom there was not even any knowledge of priestly duty, for the reason that he was at leisure in the country and thus what the foremost of the priests was he did not know. Finally a false character if placed upon him drawn from his fields and resisting as if in a play. He puts on also the holy garments, at the right time he is taught what it is necessary for him to do. And therefore by the outcome of the lot was exposed the wickedness of the seditious, that the carrying out of the great sacerdotal duties was entrusted to an ignorant and rustic person. To them the mockery of the ancient solemnity was a joke, to the priests a grief, who weeping bewailed the mockery of the law by corrupt men.[Pseudo-Hegesippus 4.6]

And the parallel section in Jewish War reads:

Now upon John's entry into Jerusalem, the whole body of the people were in an uproar, and ten thousand of them crowded about every one of the fugitives that were come to them, and inquired of them what miseries had happened abroad, when their breath was so short, and hot, and quick, that of itself it declared the great distress they were in; yet did they talk big under their misfortunes, and pretended to say that they had not fled away from the Romans, but came thither in order to fight them with less hazard; for that it would be an unreasonable and a fruitless thing for them to expose themselves to desperate hazards about Gischala, and such weak cities, whereas they ought to lay up their weapons and their zeal, and reserve it for their metropolis. But when they related to them the taking of Gischala, and their decent departure, as they pretended, from that place, many of the people understood it to be no better than a flight; and especially when the people were told of those that were made captives, they were in great confusion, and guessed those things to be plain indications that they should be taken also. But for John, he was very little concerned for those whom he had left behind him, but went about among all the people, and persuaded them to go to war, by the hopes he gave them. He affirmed that the affairs of the Romans were in a weak condition, and extolled his own power. He also jested upon the ignorance of the unskillful, as if those Romans, although they should take to themselves wings, could never fly over the wall of Jerusalem, who found such great difficulties in taking the villages of Galilee, and had broken their engines of war against their walls.

These harangues of John's corrupted a great part of the young men, and puffed them up for the war; but as to the more prudent part, and those in years, there was not a man of them but foresaw what was coming, and made lamentation on that account, as if the city was already undone; and in this confusion were the people. But then it must be observed, that the multitude that came out of the country were at discord before the Jerusalem sedition began; for Titus went from Gischala to Cesates, and Vespasian from Cesarea to Jamnia and Azotus, and took them both; and when he had put garrisons into them, he came back with a great number of the people, who were come over to him, upon his giving them his right hand for their preservation. There were besides disorders and civil wars in every city; and all those that were at quiet from the Romans turned their hands one against another. There was also a bitter contest between those that were fond of war, and those that were desirous for peace. At the first this quarrelsome temper caught hold of private families, who could not agree among themselves; after which those people that were the dearest to one another brake through all restraints with regard to each other, and every one associated with those of his own opinion, and began already to stand in opposition one to another; so that seditions arose every where, while those that were for innovations, and were desirous of war, by their youth and boldness, were too hard for the aged and prudent men. And, in the first place, all the people of every place betook themselves to rapine; after which they got together in bodies, in order to rob the people of the country, insomuch that for barbarity and iniquity those of the same nation did no way differ from the Romans; nay, it seemed to be a much lighter thing to be ruined by the Romans than by themselves.

Now the Roman garrisons, which guarded the cities, partly out of their uneasiness to take such trouble upon them, and partly out of the hatred they bare to the Jewish nation, did little or nothing towards relieving the miserable, till the captains of these troops of robbers, being satiated with rapines in the country, got all together from all parts, and became a band of wickedness, and all together crept into Jerusalem, which was now become a city without a governor, and, as the ancient custom was, received without distinction all that belonged to their nation; and these they then received, because all men supposed that those who came so fast into the city came out of kindness, and for their assistance, although these very men, besides the seditions they raised, were otherwise the direct cause of the city's destruction also; for as they were an unprofitable and a useless multitude, they spent those provisions beforehand which might otherwise have been sufficient for the fighting men. Moreover, besides the bringing on of the war, they were the occasions of sedition and famine therein.

There were besides these other robbers that came out of the country, and came into the city, and joining to them those that were worse than themselves, omitted no kind of barbarity; for they did not measure their courage by their rapines and plunderings only, but preceded as far as murdering men; and this not in the night time or privately, or with regard to ordinary men, but did it openly in the day time, and began with the most eminent persons in the city; for the first man they meddled with was Antipas, one of the royal lineage, and the most potent man in the whole city, insomuch that the public treasures were committed to his care; him they took and confined; as they did in the next place to Levias, a person of great note, with Sophas, the son of Raguel, both which were of royal lineage also. And besides these, they did the same to the principal men of the country. This caused a terrible consternation among the people, and everyone contented himself with taking care of his own safety, as they would do if the city had been taken in war.

But these were not satisfied with the bonds into which they had put the men forementioned; nor did they think it safe for them to keep them thus in custody long, since they were men very powerful, and had numerous families of their own that were able to avenge them. Nay, they thought the very people would perhaps be so moved at these unjust proceedings, as to rise in a body against them; it was therefore resolved to have them slain accordingly, they sent one John, who was the most bloody-minded of them all, to do that execution: this man was also called "the son of Dorcas," in the language of our country. Ten more men went along with him into the prison, with their swords drawn, and so they cut the throats of those that were in custody there. The grand lying pretence these men made for so flagrant an enormity was this, that these men had had conferences with the Romans for a surrender of Jerusalem to them; and so they said they had slain only such as were traitors to their common liberty. Upon the whole, they grew the more insolent upon this bold prank of theirs, as though they had been the benefactors and saviors of the city.

Now the people were come to that degree of meanness and fear, and these robbers to that degree of madness, that these last took upon them to appoint high priests. So when they had disannulled the succession, according to those families out of which the high priests used to be made, they ordained certain unknown and ignoble persons for that office, that they might have their assistance in their wicked undertakings; for such as obtained this highest of all honors, without any desert, were forced to comply with those that bestowed it on them. They also set the principal men at variance one with another, by several sorts of contrivances and tricks, and gained the opportunity of doing what they pleased, by the mutual quarrels of those who might have obstructed their measures; till at length, when they were satiated with the unjust actions they had done towards men, they transferred their contumelious behavior to God himself, and came into the sanctuary with polluted feet.

And now the multitude were going to rise against them already; for Ananus, the ancientest of the high priests, persuaded them to it. He was a very prudent man, and had perhaps saved the city if he could but have escaped the hands of those that plotted against him. These men made the temple of God a strong hold for them, and a place whither they might resort, in order to avoid the troubles they feared from the people; the sanctuary was now become a refuge, and a shop of tyranny. They also mixed jesting among the miseries they introduced, which was more intolerable than what they did; for in order to try what surprise the people would be under, and how far their own power extended, they undertook to dispose of the high priesthood by casting lots for it, whereas, as we have said already, it was to descend by succession in a family. The pretense they made for this strange attempt was an ancient practice, while they said that of old it was determined by lot; but in truth, it was no better than a dissolution of an undeniable law, and a cunning contrivance to seize upon the government, derived from those that presumed to appoint governors as they themselves pleased.

Hereupon they sent for one of the pontifical tribes, which is called Eniachim, and cast lots which of it should be the high priest. By fortune the lot so fell as to demonstrate their iniquity after the plainest manner, for it fell upon one whose name was Phannias, the son of Samuel, of the village Aphtha. He was a man not only unworthy of the high priesthood, but that did not well know what the high priesthood was, such a mere rustic was he ! yet did they hail this man, without his own consent, out of the country, as if they were acting a play upon the stage, and adorned him with a counterfeit thee; they also put upon him the sacred garments, and upon every occasion instructed him what he was to do. This horrid piece of wickedness was sport and pastime with them, but occasioned the other priests, who at a distance saw their law made a jest of, to shed tears, and sorely lament the dissolution of such a sacred dignity. [Jewish War 4.3.1 - 10]

The first thing that immediately comes to our attention is the solution to the reason why Pseudo-Hegesippus - which has with the last section been finally proven I think to be closer to the original υπομνημα or υπομνηματα of second century Josephus - only introduces John of Gischala in the last part of the last section before 'switching' to completely to Justus's Chronicle. I think that the section century editor saw that John went unmentioned by Josephus but figured prominently in Justus's account.

The solution was to originally add a brief mention of this 'John' escaping from Gischala at the last minute and running to Jerusalem as we see here. There had to be some sort of link between the two conflicting narratives. Vita and Jewish War continue the expansion of John's role in the Galilean revolt until he seems to take over the rebel side.

Not surprisingly Jewish War goes to greater lengths to pin the blame for the revolt on John's bravado:

But for John, he was very little concerned for those whom he had left behind him, but went about among all the people, and persuaded them to go to war, by the hopes he gave them. He affirmed that the affairs of the Romans were in a weak condition, and extolled his own power. He also jested upon the ignorance of the unskillful, as if those Romans, although they should take to themselves wings, could never fly over the wall of Jerusalem, who found such great difficulties in taking the villages of Galilee, and had broken their engines of war against their walls. These harangues of John's corrupted a great part of the young men, and puffed them up for the war; but as to the more prudent part, and those in years, there was not a man of them but foresaw what was coming, and made lamentation on that account, as if the city was already undone

Pseudo-Hegesippus's blames all the leaders of the revolt for the downfall of Jerusalem saying in the parallel section:

Johannes took himself to the city of Jerusalem and as if a certain plague infected the minds of a great many, who the leaders of outrages from diverse regions had assembled there as if in a cesspool. For this was in fact for that city the cause of its great destruction, that the incorrigible brought about with their villainies, that most came together there, in which place they believed they would be safer or more arrogantly could pile up their outrages, they were considered to put aside their faith. And so they were received everywhere as if they came from devoted love of the temple to defend it. This was the foremost stroke of misfortune. From this was suppressed the mildness of the few by the haughtiness of the many, from this it progressed into slaughter, since a stranger is less forbearing, from this it was plotted that the solemnities of the law should be be disregarded, the sacerdotal offices should be diverted from the good people to the wicked, because it was not known by men unacquainted not only with religious education but even with knowledge of the law what was sacred

This is a very significant corruption for it parallels what happens as we noted in the work as a whole - John becomes the scapegoat for all the problems of the Jews. Indeed Jewish War in the narrative that follows about the slaughter of the priests of royal rank attributes those actions to a certain '"they sent one John, who was the most bloody-minded of them all, to do that execution: this man was also called "the son of Dorcas," in the language of our country." The language here sounds suspiciously similar to Acts 9:35 with its reference to "a disciple named Tabitha (which, when translated, is Dorcas)."

The running theme of the Jews being infected with the example of Saul continues through this part of the narrative too when Pseudo-Hegesippus preserves the original accusation against the rebels for using lots to choose their priests:

But when the priestly men and especially Ananus senior to the rest, lest through esteem should be granted a prerogative of the highest name, they demand the foremost of the priests be created by a drawing of lots, in which it is considered that the outcome of the drawing is entrusted not to favor but to a divine judgment. In truth they pretended an ancient usage by which it was the custom that those being placed in the first rank of the priesthood were selected by lot, evidently however they worked out a loosening of the law. For when the law of priestly succession selected men for the drawing, they for the sake of appearance alone from the priestly tribe set up one present Eniachim by name and ordered it done by lot. Then a certain Phanis was selected by lot, a village man the son of Samuel, to whom not only was no succession supported by leaders of the priests, but to whom there was not even any knowledge of priestly duty, for the reason that he was at leisure in the country and thus what the foremost of the priests was he did not know. Finally a false character if placed upon him drawn from his fields and resisting as if in a play. He puts on also the holy garments, at the right time he is taught what it is necessary for him to do. And therefore by the outcome of the lot was exposed the wickedness of the seditious, that the carrying out of the great sacerdotal duties was entrusted to an ignorant and rustic person. To them the mockery of the ancient solemnity was a joke, to the priests a grief, who weeping bewailed the mockery of the law by corrupt men.

It is worth noting that Jewish War transforms the outrage that the original editor felt towards the use of lots to determine the priesthood and writes instead that:

These men made the temple of God a strong hold for them, and a place whither they might resort, in order to avoid the troubles they feared from the people; the sanctuary was now become a refuge, and a shop of tyranny. They also mixed jesting among the miseries they introduced, which was more intolerable than what they did; for in order to try what surprise the people would be under, and how far their own power extended, they undertook to dispose of the high priesthood by casting lots for it, whereas, as we have said already, it was to descend by succession in a family. The pretense they made for this strange attempt was an ancient practice, while they said that of old it was determined by lot; but in truth, it was no better than a dissolution of an undeniable law, and a cunning contrivance to seize upon the government, derived from those that presumed to appoint governors as they themselves pleased. Hereupon they sent for one of the pontifical tribes, which is called Eniachim, and cast lots which of it should be the high priest. By fortune the lot so fell as to demonstrate their iniquity after the plainest manner, for it fell upon one whose name was Phannias, the son of Samuel, of the village Aphtha. He was a man not only unworthy of the high priesthood, but that did not well know what the high priesthood was, such a mere rustic was he ! yet did they hail this man, without his own consent, out of the country, as if they were acting a play upon the stage, and adorned him with a counterfeit thee; they also put upon him the sacred garments, and upon every occasion instructed him what he was to do. This horrid piece of wickedness was sport and pastime with them, but occasioned the other priests, who at a distance saw their law made a jest of, to shed tears, and sorely lament the dissolution of such a sacred dignity.

In either case the argument is again clear - the priesthood was being established in the same manner as Saul was chosen:

Then Samuel brought all the tribes of Israel near, and the tribe of Benjamin was taken by lot. He brought the tribe of Benjamin near by its families, and the family of the Matrites was taken by lot; finally he brought the family of the Matrites near man by man, and Saul the son of Kish was taken by lot. But when they sought him, he could not be found. So they inquired again of The Lord, "Did the man come hither?" and The Lord said, "Behold, he has hidden himself among the baggage. Then they ran and fetched him from there; and when he stood among the people, he was taller than any of the people from his shoulders upward. And Samuel said to all the people, "Do you see him whom The Lord has chosen? There is none like him among all the people." And all the people shouted, "Long live the king!" (1 Samuel 10:20-24)

Clearly this can't be coincidence. It is a running theme throughout the second century narrative - i.e. the example of Saul wrongly defining the 'law of the Jews.'