Little Sister

This is PAINFULLY obvious.
Sorry dude, it's your loss, and it shows.

Fencesitter

Your point is still very unclear. [Personal reference deleted]

But let me try once again. If you're asking why you should not inflict violence on children, it's because of the same laws that protect adults. If you're asking why you should save children from the violence you see inflicted on them from others, I don't see any requirement for this.

Maybe it's a difference in culture. But let me cite a recent case in the US.

A guy was beating on his own kid. Some guy comes along, sees this and is upset. So he beats on the guy that he saw beating his own kid. The guy that beat the adult got jail time. The guy that beat his own kid got no consequences. I would assume that he got a visit from social services, but that's beside the point.

Altruism is not required by law. In fact, if you "help" someone in trouble, you may be subject to good samaritan laws which state that if you leave someone in a worse position than you found them, then you could be liable to them.

That's from a legal standpoint. From a moral standpoint, we all decide what we will morally allow. Unless someone is arguing for an objective moral code (the Bible, for example), then our moral code is based on different inputs. So far, I've seen a lot of emotional outrage here, but very few real arguments about protecting others from bad consequences. Is that your question? If so, why is it only about children? Why would the moral treatment of children be any different than adults in this case?

meritocrat

You people have given me NO logical reason why I should be able to 'learn' something from a child. Couldn't I learn about 'empathy' just as easily from an adult?!

The second 'guy' should rightfully be charged with assault! He could easily have reported the incident to the police without getting involved!

Little Sister

I didn't realize I owed you logic, man. The things one learns from children are often about oneself. However, you have to be open to it, and able to own your shortcomings. If a child can ask you a question that you can't answer, and you sit in bemused silence, wondering how this kid came up with something you never thought about... that's just an example, but there's many more. The wonder of their innocence, seeing the world through their eyes, marveling at the speed in which they learn are other examples.
There's no frikkin' logic to it, bub. But hey-- I'm not your momma. I won't force you to do anything you don't wanna. But I know that the parts of myself that have been influenced by children are parts that I treasure....
..... and you'll never have that.
So like I said-- your loss.

Fencesitter

And he WAS charged with assault and sent to jail. Did you read the post?

You don't have a point, do you? It's pretty amazing how much emotional outrage that you've extracted from this crowd given that you don't have any point to make. I'm amazed at all the people here making emotional appeals and poor arguments. I've just come from a Christian board, and it's very similar there also. But isn't this the freethinkers' board? Sigh.

Little Sister

I think Meritocrat understood the post, but was pointing out that the charges against the man were justified. (Rightfully charged were his words.)

It's a freethinker's board. Sometimes I think with my emotions, along with everything else, I mean, we're *free* to right? However, if you're good with logic, then how 'bout helping out? Do you have something that's not a "poor argument"?

Hyndis

There's more to being human than just pure, cold logic. Joy, sadness, loss, hope...these things make life worth living. The contrast between emotions is what keeps life interesting, and this is also why I much enjoy astronomy. I feel a strange mix of awe, hope, and sadness when looking into the deep void of space.

The sheer scale of it should amaze anyone, and all of the possibilities of such a vast universe...but on the other hand there's the sheer loneliness of being the only (known) spec of consciousness that can understand such a staggeringly beautiful sight.

This cannot be described by logic.

Many things in life cannot be desribed by logic, and to refuse to do anything unless a logical reason can be found is pure folly. We are emotional creatures, so purposefully cutting out part of your mind is both a strange and dangerous handicap.

At the risk of invoking Goodwin's Law, in that without any empathy at all its all too easy to go on a path of carnage and slaughter, much like what is currently happening in Africa, or what has happened in Europe 60 years ago. Empathy helps us see the pain and suffering in others, and without this bond...well, welcome to hell.

Fencesitter

My apologies to everyone here. I was probably the most emotional with my frustration about the lack of logic.

As gunnaheave has pointed out to me, things are done a little differently here than the last board that I was on. I'll try to watch a little more before I post here again.

meritocrat

Sorry but the argument's evolved from violence to why I should be responsible to other people's children. I see NO rational reason why I should!

meritocrat

And? Humans are a mixture of emotion and logic.

No new news, boy-o.

Can we get back to why individuals must care for strangers' children?