grumpytheBright

[QUOTE=Fenrir's Nemesis;4881821]


In a civilized society capital punishment isn't about vengeance. Why is it better for the FAMILY to kill the wrong guy than for the GOVERNMENT to do it?

Anyone in the modern world who still believes that capital punishment is a deterrent is being willfully ignorant. It just ain't so and everyone knows it who isn't thinking with his ass.

If you want to come back with deterrent arguements, just keep in mind that they've all been made, none apply, and you are wasting your keystroking calories.

grumpytheBright

Fenrir's Nemesis

[QUOTE=grumpytheBright;4881997]Perhaps you should reread my original post, Grumpy the Pompous. My statement was "if it were used as a deterrent", from which, one would infer that it is not being used as a deterrent. The current system misapplies the use of capital punishment, if that is the goal. Capital punishment CAN be used as a deterrent, and is used as such outside of the US.

Fenrir's Nemesis

[QUOTE=grumpytheBright;4881997]Again, reread my post. I simply asked a question, as from the wording of the poster I queried, it seemed as though he took issue with the fact that the state was applying the death penalty, rather than the fact that the DP was applied as all.

My retort to your rather comical statement is that your opinion is just that, an opinion. I would suggest that in a weak society capital punishment is not about vengeance. In EVERY society capital punishment is, at least in part, about giving the accused his due- i.e. exacting vengeance. This is a perfectly natural compulsion, and one that cannot be denied.

Blackbeard

Statistics do not make any indication that capital punishment is a deterrent. In states that have banned capital punishment, murder rates have not risen. In states that have enacted capital punishment, murder rates have not fallen so there is no compelling evidence to believe that the death penalty is a detterent, in fact what evidence there is indicates otherwise. Please don't take my word for it, research it and if you come up with a different answer, let me know.

grumpytheBright

You win! There is no way that a pro DP can be rational. I concede all points to you and withdraw.:notworthy: :wave:

Fenrir's Nemesis

Apparently, I'm being unclear. I understand that capital punishment is no longer a deterrent in the US. It is no longer used as such. Capital punishment CAN be used as a deterrent, however, if the executions are carried out in a more summary and immediate manner. It is for this reason that occupying authorities often use them as a method for pacifying their newly conquered populace.

Fenrir's Nemesis

One, I'm not arguing for or against the death penalty. I merely posited motivation behind the death penalty. (edit).

Blackbeard

[QUOTE=Fenrir's Nemesis;4882996]There are many natural compulsions that should be curtailed if we are to advance to become a truly civilized society, IMHO. And that compulsion is certainly one of them. I do not feel compelled to exact vengeance upon those who do me wrong. I do however think it a good idea to as humanely as possible keep that person from wronging me or anyone else again. I guess vengeance is a compulsion that is not universal among men so it is erroneous for you to claim that it is and that it can't be denied. Just because you feel unable to rise above your baser instincts does not mean that no one can.

And how does one "use the death penalty as a deterrent"? Public hangings in town squares, leaving the bodies to rot for a couple of days for maximum effect? Beheadings on the mayor's lawn? Community stonings perhaps? Is that what you are suggesting?

Blackbeard

Oh, so you propose swift execution after conviction, not allowing ample time for appeals, for new evidence to be examined, for possible mitigating cirumstances to be explored? Why don't we just put the gas chamber in the court room then? Great idea! "The jury says you're guilty ..... I sentence you to death .... bailiff, please don your black hood and escort this man to the gas chamber ...... next case!" I also think it's a [sarcasm]great idea[/sarcasm] to use tactics employed by conquering armies to control a populace in our everyday society.

grumpytheBright

(edit).

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