Amaleq13

If that is the interpretation, it doesn't seem like much of a prophecy to me. If we assume that it is specifically referring to the official declaration of nationhood, why would anyone expect it to take longer than a day? Even if it was a declaration by the nation, rather than a recognition by others, it would still take place on a single day. There is nothing amazing about the "prophecy" if we interpret it this narrowly and nothing accurate about it if we interpret it more realistically.

Wallener

What does that have to do with Isaiah?

That aside, your statement is incorrect: the process of recognizing Israel began on May 12 and did not complete until May 14: there is no definition of "one day" that can include such a long stretch of time. Worse, the recognition offered by the US (and virtually all other countries) is not, in fact, full recognition as Jerusalem is not accepted as belonging to Israel. Without full and legal posession of Jerusalem, Israel cannot be said to exist - even at this late date - in the prophetic sense.

Jenn6162

No need to apologize, I should have wrote my response differently.

Well by todays standards it is not remarkable, but in Isaiah's day wasn't it a bit unusual? I would think some kind of war would have to take place before a nation would change hands in the eighth century BC.

Jenn6162

The prophecy?? Posted above, maybe I don't understand what you mean.


If you don't mind I would like a source.

http://www.mfa.gov.il
My information came from Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs website

Jerusalem belongs to Israel.
http://www.jerusalem.muni.il/jer_main/f1_main.asp?lng=2

The prophecy is not contingent upon Israel being in control of Jerusalem. No where does Isaiah state that. Israel won the Six Day War and has control of Jerusalem.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/3047177.stm

Notice that it say for the first time since 1948, so at the time Israel became a nation it had control over Jerusalem.

Jenn6162

I answered this in my response to Paradox.

Wallener

Several Truman biographies discuss the multi-day process involved. Amazon even has them in stock.

This is not recognized by the United States or any other significant nation on earth, nor is it recognized by the UN. Put another way: the US has not recognized Prophetic Israel until it recognizes that Jerusalem belongs to Israel.

It most assuredly is: it is a fundamental tenet of prophetic Judaism that there is no Israel without Jerusalem.

Jenn6162

My info came from Israel's website


Only for PC reasons. Israel won the war.


And your source for this is? Be specific please.

Jenn6162

A non-biased source would be helpful. Just how much of an extended period are we talking about?


Yes, but Isaiah had no way of knowing that this was possible. How did nations come to be in Isaiah's day?

The other part of your question is a really good one. I need more time to adequately answer that one. You are good. You say 1 was the exodus and 2 was the babylonian return. I will need to gather sources and figure this out. If I lose this particular argument I will give you credit for stumping me. Not that that would be too tough to do. I personally think the key is the remnant, but I have to prove it.

Wallener

I was unaware Israel was the authoritative source on the inner workings of the US political process.

I don't see a "PC reasons" qualifiers anywhere in Isaiah.

Jerusalem as the eternal capital of Israel is part of the covenant beginning with David. In prophecy, it is the City of David that, amongst other things, the nations flock to: in the world we currently inhabit, the nations have flocked to Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. According to the Hebrew texts, it cannot be claimed Israel has been recognized in a prophetically meaningful sense until Jerusalem is recognized as the capital of Israel.

Wallener

The normative Jewish view is that Isaiah was written in 3 main chunks, spanning a period of rougly 250 years.