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Old 01-30-2005, 04:17 AM   #51
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Default speculative fallacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraprakrti
Where did you get your conception of reincarnation?

The consitution of the soul, according to the Bhagavad-Gita, is that it is eternal. The soul is neither created nor destroyed. There is simply an inconceivable amount of souls that are falling into material existence and some are being liberated from it. According to the Vedas, the spiritual world makes up 3/4th's of God's manifest potency. The remaining 1/4th is the material manifestation that consists of an innumerable amount of universes each with billions of planets and trillions upon trillions of living entities. If that is only 1/4th then imagine the remaining 3/4ths. In the spiritual world there are 3 times as many living entities. For specific reasons unknown to us right now, many souls are falling into the material world. None of them are being created.

Bhagavad-Gita 2.20:

na jayate mriyate va kadacin
nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyah
ajo nityah sasvato 'yam purano
na hanyate hanyamane sarire


SYNONYMS

na--never; jayate--takes birth; mriyate--never dies; va--either; kadacit--at any time (past, present or future); na--never; ayam--this; bhutva--came into being; bhavita--will come to be; va--or; na--not; bhuyah--or has coming to be; ajah--unborn; nityah--eternal; sasvatah--permanent; ayam--this; puranah--the oldest; na--never; hanyate--is killed; hanyamane--being killed; sarire--by the body.


TRANSLATION

For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.
Buddhism is ambivalent about the existence of this soul. On the one hand Yeshi claims there is a Dharmakaya and on the other hand Buddhists often insist that there is no soul. The only evidence of a soul is individual conviction. Some people are convinced that there is no soul. Either they are wrong, or the soul is an imaginary construct. Presumably we should have independent evidence of the existence of the soul, but we do not. Hence it is just a speculation that, by being factually wrong, is likely to lead a person into some false action.

In particular the notion of the soul is in conflict with materialism, where matter is the substrate from which all other phenomena arise. Do you subscribe to the notion of Prakriti and Purusha?
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Old 02-04-2005, 01:46 PM   #52
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Default reference soul is unborn according to Bhagavad Gita

as others have also said many species planets and universes for the soul to take birth in


Bhagavad-gīt�? As It Is 2.20

na j�?yate mriyate v�? kad�?cin

n�?yam�? bhūtv�? bhavit�? v�? na bhūyaḥ

ajo nityaḥ ś�?śvato 'yam�? pur�?ṇo

na hanyate hanyam�?ne śarīre

SYNONYMS

na — never; j�?yate — takes birth; mriyate — dies; v�? — either; kad�?cit — at any time (past, present or future); na — never; ayam — this; bhūtv�? — having come into being; bhavit�? — will come to be; v�? — or; na — not; bhūyaḥ — or is again coming to be; ajaḥ — unborn; nityaḥ — eternal; ś�?śvataḥ — permanent; ayam — this; pur�?ṇaḥ — the oldest; na — never; hanyate — is killed; hanyam�?ne — being killed; śarīre — the body.

TRANSLATION

For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.

PURPORT

Qualitatively, the small atomic fragmental part of the Supreme Spirit is one with the Supreme. He undergoes no changes like the body. Sometimes the soul is called the steady, or kūṭa-stha. The body is subject to six kinds of transformations. It takes its birth from the womb of the mother's body, remains for some time, grows, produces some effects, gradually dwindles, and at last vanishes into oblivion. The soul, however, does not go through such changes. The soul is not born, but, because he takes on a material body, the body takes its birth. The soul does not take birth there, and the soul does not die. Anything which has birth also has death. And because the soul has no birth, he therefore has no past, present or future. He is eternal, ever-existing, and primeval — that is, there is no trace in history of his coming into being. Under the impression of the body, we seek the history of birth, etc., of the soul. The soul does not at any time become old, as the body does. The so-called old man, therefore, feels himself to be in the same spirit as in his childhood or youth. The changes of the body do not affect the soul. The soul does not deteriorate like a tree, nor anything material. The soul has no by-product either. The by-products of the body, namely children, are also different individual souls; and, owing to the body, they appear as children of a particular man. The body develops because of the soul's presence, but the soul has neither offshoots nor change. Therefore, the soul is free from the six changes of the body.

In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad (1.2.18) we also find a similar passage, which reads:

na j�?yate mriyate v�? vipaścin

n�?yam�? kutaścin na babhūva kaścit

ajo nityaḥ ś�?śvato 'yam�? pur�?ṇo

na hanyate hanyam�?ne śarīre

The meaning and purport of this verse is the same as in the Bhagavad-gīt�?, but here in this verse there is one special word, vipaścit, which means learned or with knowledge.

The soul is full of knowledge, or full always with consciousness. Therefore, consciousness is the symptom of the soul. Even if one does not find the soul within the heart, where he is situated, one can still understand the presence of the soul simply by the presence of consciousness. Sometimes we do not find the sun in the sky owing to clouds, or for some other reason, but the light of the sun is always there, and we are convinced that it is therefore daytime. As soon as there is a little light in the sky early in the morning, we can understand that the sun is in the sky. Similarly, since there is some consciousness in all bodies — whether man or animal — we can understand the presence of the soul. This consciousness of the soul is, however, different from the consciousness of the Supreme because the supreme consciousness is all-knowledge — past, present and future. The consciousness of the individual soul is prone to be forgetful. When he is forgetful of his real nature, he obtains education and enlightenment from the superior lessons of Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa is not like the forgetful soul. If so, Kṛṣṇa's teachings of Bhagavad-gīt�? would be useless.

There are two kinds of souls — namely the minute particle soul (aṇu-�?tm�?) and the Supersoul (vibhu-�?tm�?). This is also confirmed in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad (1.2.20) in this way:

aṇor aṇīy�?n mahato mahīy�?n

�?tm�?sya jantor nihito guh�?y�?m

tam akratuḥ paśyati vīta-śoko

dh�?tuḥ pras�?d�?n mahim�?nam �?tmanaḥ

"Both the Supersoul [Param�?tm�?] and the atomic soul [jīv�?tm�?] are situated on the same tree of the body within the same heart of the living being, and only one who has become free from all material desires as well as lamentations can, by the grace of the Supreme, understand the glories of the soul." Kṛṣṇa is the fountainhead of the Supersoul also, as it will be disclosed in the following chapters, and Arjuna is the atomic soul, forgetful of his real nature; therefore he requires to be enlightened by Kṛṣṇa, or by His bona fide representative (the spiritual master).
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Old 02-09-2005, 09:53 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly
I was a very eclectic person. I had my own beliefs. My beliefs about reincarnation did not necessarily come from any existing organized religion.
did you r personal beliefs present a elaborate and concise system of reincarnation as that of the Bhagavad Gita?
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