Larsguy47

There was an eclipse that occurred in 33 CE that helps date this specifically. Nisan 14th is the night of a full moon and eclipses occur on the night of the full moon. But additionally, since Jesus must be in the tomb for "three nights" (Matt. 14:44) it requires a double-sabbath weekend. So based upon that as well we know that passover fell on a Friday evening, so that the 21st aligns with the following Friday to afford a two-sabbath weekend. So those factors would be more of a direct reference to how this was dated back then as anything else.

LG47

Larsguy47

If Jesus died the day of preparation before the "high sabbath" of the 21st, that Friday, then the three nights are natural nights. Remember you need three whole nights. Where's the third night in your scenario? He rose on Saturday night. If the first night is Friday night and he rose on Saturday night, then where's the third night? It's not there. It's easy to semi-gloss over "three days" by saying Friday, Saturday and Sunday, it is not enough when you insist upon three nights as well.

Usually some think they get by by saying, "three days and three nights" is really a casual reference to just three days. But if you're being specific about the nights as well, which I believe you must, then Jesus has to die on a Thursday afternoon. That'd DAY one. Then FriDAY and SaturDAY, make up the three DAYS. Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday night make up the three night.

LG47

Lugubert

Can't help. I was a Protestant (Lutheran flavour) until past my 50th birthday, a frequent churchgoer for several years, and I never heard a reference to different kinds of Sabbath. In fact, there are rather few Google hits on the Swedish word "sabbat" that aren't referring to Jewish practice only, or to Internet games.

I suppose any fellow Xian who might have argued for Wednesday would have been recommended to seek professional advice for their condition.

-Jay-

I've been Catholic all my life and have never seen any Catholic tradition of a Wednesday crucifixtion. It's always been Good Friday. I can't honestly say I've ever heard the term High Days used, either.

regards,

NinJay

Cege

The law of Moses set the Festival of Unfermented Cakes on Nisan 15 of every year. The day of the Festival was to be celebrated as a sabbath day, whether it fell on a Sabbath/Saturday or not. Do I have that right?

There are some who feel sure that in 33CE the Festival of Unfermented Cakes on Nisan 15 fell on Saturday/Sabbath. Do I have that right?

And therefore, if I have the first 2 right, there are some who believe that Nisan 15 of 33CE was a double sabbath, or a special sabbath (John 19:31 "Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath" (NIV).

And that series of beliefs makes an arguement for GJohn placing the crucifixtion day on Friday rather than a Wednesday.

Did I "get" it or did I not?

Steven Avery

However there is no reference to a normal eclipse, rather three hours of darkness.

Luke 23:44
And it was about the sixth hour,
and there was a darkness over all the earth
until the ninth hour.

Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour
there was darkness over all the land
unto the ninth hour.

Mark 15:33
And when the sixth hour was come,
there was darkness over the whole land
until the ninth hour.

Some of the modern versions and some commentaries
may mistakenly refer to an eclipse.

Shalom,
Steven

badger3k

As an ex-Roman Catholic, we never had anything like a Wed crucifixion. It was always Friday, so I doubt this was a Catholic idea. The most likely seems to be an apologist trying to harmonize two separate and contradictory accounts, which they seem to do quite often.

Larsguy47

Sorry, I did not mean to imply the darkness after Jesus was impaled was the eclipse. Further, it was not a solar eclipse but a lunar eclipse that happened on the 14th of the month. Jesus dies during Passover week, technically on the 20th. But either way a solar eclipse only occurs during the new moon. The Full moon occurs on the 14th and that confirms that Passover occurred on a Friday in 33 CE.

Thanks for your comment. My position is that Jesus ate the normal Passover and thus was arrested on the 15th. The passover is the same night the Jews left Egypt on the 15th. This was a Saturday in 33CE therefore when he was arrested and could not have been killed that day. Further they were waiting for a release of a prisoner so prisoners likely would not be killed immediately this week but tried the same day. That was Wednesday, Nisan 19. Jesus was impaled at the third hour at 9 p.m. that night and it got dark for 3 hours the next day at noon, Thursday, Nisan 20th.

LG47

Larsguy47

The accounts are not contradictory. The idiomatic references are not understood well for John 19:14, that's all. In fact, it is incorrectly translated.

The Jews used the word "de" (but) in front of times of the day when they wanted to indicate "just before" and left it off when they were making a reference for "during." It's like we use "pre". It "was dawn" or it was "pre dawn." Or as we use "not". We add a word to modify.

Thus if you compare the use of "preparation" in all the references where Jesus is being laid in the tomb none of them use the "de" with preparation. John 19:14 is the exception. Since we know this was not the day of preparation that he was tried but just before the day of preparation, John 19:14 should be translated: "It was before the day of preparation for passover. The hour was the sixth."

PASSOVER had two special sabbath days, the 15th and the 21st, which were the 1st and 7th days of unfermented cakes. That means there were two sabbath days of passover and two preparation days of passover. Since preparation ended at sundown before Jesus ate the Sedar meal, the only other "preparation day for passover" was Thursday, Nisan 20th. Since the trial at noon was "de preparation" that is, the afternoon just before preparation would begin that evening, this would have been Wednesday, the 19th.

Now this works out perfectly for what we know since we know it is IMPOSSIBLE for Jesus to be on trial at noon and for it to get dark for three hours at noon too. Jesus was impaled at the "third hour" yet his trial was the sixth hour. What did they do? impale him first and then take him down for the trial? Not hardly. The impalement at the third hour, which was 9 o'clock at night, followed the trial at the sixth hour, which was at noon. It was the next day at noon, therefore, after Jesus had been on the cross for 15 hours, since 9 p.m. the previous night, that it got dark for three hours from Noon until 3:00 p.m., at which time he died, Thursday, Nisan 20th, on the day of prepreation for the passover sabbath day of Nisan 21st, A Friday.

This is how Jesus fulfills being in the grave for three nights, but dying one day before a sabbath and rising one day after a sabbath. There were two sabbaths in a row this following weekend. The special passover sabbath of the 21st on Friday and the regular Saturday on the 22nd. Jesus was in the grave for three nights: Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday night, on which he rose while it was still dark.

So there are no contradictions between John and the Synoptic gospels. That's a perception based on inaccurate Biblical translation.

LG47

RED DAVE

just for fun;

Why do you confuse Sabbath and Passover? Sabbath is Sabbath and Passover is Passover.

By the way, how many matzah balls did you have in your soup this last Passover? I assume, of course, that you had a Seder.

RED DAVE