jakejonesiv

Hi fr0sty,

Try this link. it is a high level summary of the Atrahasis Epic. Hope that is the level of readability you are looking for.

Jake

Steven Avery

It appears that in in many posts on this thread what is supposed to be the historic Jewish understanding is misrepresented. This quote above is only one of many, although Diogenes may be claiming that he is only giving his own understanding, not historic Judaism.

http://philologos.org/__eb-lat/appen13.htm
The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah Alfred Edersheim 1883
JEWISH ANGELOLOGY AND DEMONOLOGY. THE FALL of THE ANGELS.

In the Pirqé de R. Eliezer, we are only told that the Angels had in vain attempted to oppose the creation of man. The circumstance that his superiority was evidenced by his ability to give names to all creatures, induced them to 'lay a plot against Adam,' so that by his fall they might obtain supremacy. Now of all Angel-Princes in heaven Sammael was the first - distinguished above. Taking the company of Angels subject to him, he came down upon earth, and selected as the only fit instrument for his designs the serpent, which at that time had not only speech, but hands and feet, and was in stature and appearance like the camel. In the language of the Pirqé de R. Eliezer, Sammael took complete possession of the serpent, even as demoniacs act under the absolute control of evil spirits. Then Sammael, in the serpent, first deceived the woman, and next imposed on her by touching the tree of life (although the tree cried out), saying, that he had actually 'touched' the tree, of which he pretended the touch had been forbidden on pain of death (Gen. iii. 3)15 - and yet he had not died! (continues)

Shalom,
Steven Avery
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic

Amaleq13

I wasn't aware of a similar Jewish tradition of reading a demon into the snake's part in the story. Thanks for the info. I assume it precedes the Christian effort but by how much time?

Diogenes the Cynic

It's from post-Christian Rabbinic literature. You should know better than to take Praxeus at face value.

It also needs to be pointed out to Praxeus that Medieval Jewish commentaries on the story have no relevance at all to the author's actual intent. There is no intent by the author of the story (a story which was derived from prior Mesopotamian mythology) for the snake to be anything but a snake.

jakejonesiv

The huluppu tree is the prototype for the Tree in the Garden of Eden. It is carried to the goddess Inanna's fruitful garden on the Euphrates. In its roots nest the Serpent, and Lilith built her house. Lilith was Adam’s first wife in Jewish legend. In Gen. chapter 1:27, man and woman are created equal. This is interpreted as the first creation, Adam and Lilith. The second creation (2:18-23 ) is Eve from Adam’s “rib”, and she is therefore subservient to Adam.
Notice that up to that point "Eve's" name was not Eve at all! It was Woman Ishah or Neqavah woman/female respectively. Adam gave her the name Eve (3:30),since he had the rights to name all the animals, AFTER she did what she did, WHY? Because she was the mother of ALL living!!!! Huh?!!! How can she be the mother of all living if he didn't KNOW her until AFTER he named her EVE? (4:1)
Someone ain't tellin us some'n! Which hints that she was with child before Adam KNEW her and before she was cursed by Yahweh? Also, when you see where the woman says "behold I have gotten a man from the lord" well Come on now, we know that the serpent was Enki/Ea, the Lord indeed!
OK when their eyes are opened and they know nakedness, what do they do? They run and cover their loins with fig leaves. And what does Yahweh do later? He clothes them with skin. There is a LOT that is hidden there!

Jake Jones IV

mdarus

Chapka had a good point. If you get bogged down in hidden meanings, you lose the point. It would be more profitable to consider the place of this version of the story in intent of the Jewish author. Diogenis the Cynic was attempting this above. This story has been used so heavily in Christian theology, it is difficult to read it with fresh eyes. Although, I don't agree with some of the views above, they do help freshen the story and consider how it would be understood in the context of ancient Judaism. The main focus seems to be the importance of obeying commands even if there seems to be good reason not to.

Buster Daily

Lilith was a Mesopotamian night demon. The garbage about being Adam's first wife wasn't made up until the middle ages.

jakejonesiv

Jake

jakejonesiv

It isn't clear at all. Name the three gods. Are you invoking the doctrine of the Trinity here, something not invented until the church councils of the fourth century CE?

Jake

Buster Daily

The parallels between "Gilgamesh and the Huluppu Tree" and the Garden of Eden are weak IMHO. Gilgamesh chopped down the Huluppu tree for Inanna so she could make a chair and a couch. It was obviously prized for its wood and not its fruit. The snake was hanging out in the roots presumably being menacing and couldn't be charmed away. Lilith was a demon in the trunk and the Anzu bird was in the branches. Any connection to the OT other than the name of Lilith are weak.