Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 12-12-2008, 02:45 PM

Mark 14.64

Quote:

Ye have heard the BLASPHEMY; what think ye?

And they ALL condemned him to be Guilty of Death.

Ben C Smith · 12-12-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Mark 14.64

Quote:

Ye have heard the BLASPHEMY what think ye?

And they ALL condemned him to be Guilty of Death.

This was just the first round before the sanhedrin, who had no authority to execute anybody. This is what, according to the gospels, gets Jesus into round two before Pilate.

Ben.

No Robots · 12-12-2008, 02:49 PM

Doesn't it seem reasonable that he was convicted by the Jews of blasphemy; and that, in order to get a capital sentence from Pilate, they made the charge into sedition?

Jeffrey Gibson · 12-12-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Larry Hurtado's Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in Earliest Christianity, (or via: amazon.co.uk) let alone his briefer How On Earth Did Jesus Become A God?: Historical Questions About Earliest Devotion To Jesus (or via: amazon.co.uk) or God Crucified : Monotheism and Christology in the New Testament (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Richard Bauckham or Tom Wright's "Jesus's Divinity Within Jewish Monotheism"?

Whoa! That's some heavy-duty Trinitarianism.

Have you actually read any of these works?

Jeffrey

Ben C Smith · 12-12-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Doesn't it seem reasonable that he was convicted by the Jews of blasphemy; and that, in order to get a capital sentence from Pilate, they made the charge into sedition?

Exactly. That is just what the gospels relate, and it is plausible. (Plausibility does not automatically equal historicity, of course; but it is something to work with.)

Ben.

No Robots · 12-12-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Have you actually read any of these works?

I looked them over, following your links. That last paper is available in full text here. It's all pretty conservative stuff. Not at all of a Unitarian bent.

aa5874 · 12-12-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Mark 14.64

This was just the first round before the sanhedrin, who had no authority to execute anybody. This is what, according to the gospels, gets Jesus into round two before Pilate.

Ben.

What first round?

Jesus was charged with blasphemy and the penalty was death, according to the author of Mark. Jesus was brought before Pilate on that very charge of blasphemy in the morning or sometime after his arrest and charge.

Now, during the trial where Jesus was charged with blasphemy, according to the author of Mark, Jesus was asked if he was the King of the Jews and he answered "Thou sayest it" See Mark 15. Jesus was basically non-responsive during the trial.

No Robots · 12-12-2008, 03:02 PM

The author's name is Christopher Price, though, not Tom Wright; unless there are two papers called "Jesus's Divinity Within Jewish Monotheism".

Ben C Smith · 12-12-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

What first round?

There were (at least) two hearings or trials in the gospels. The first one was before the sanhedrin (the Jewish authority); the second was before Pilate (the Roman authority).

Quote:

Jesus was charged with blasphemy and the penalty was death, according to the author of Mark.

Yes, and this was in the first hearing, the one before the Jewish authorities, who did not have the power to carry out capital punishment. If the Jewish authorities could have carried out capital punishment, they would have done so instead of hauling Jesus to Pilate.

Quote:

Jesus was brought before Pilate on that very charge of blasphemy in the morning or sometime after his arrest and charge.

Please cite the verse(s) in which Jesus is charged with blasphemy before Pilate.

Ben.

Toto · 12-12-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Have you actually read any of these works?

I looked them over, following your links. That last paper is available in full text here. It's all pretty conservative stuff. Not at all of a Unitarian bent.

That is a paper by Chris Price (who has posted here as Layman). He's a conservative American lawyer and Christian apologist, not the sort of qualified multilingual expert that Jeffrey likes to cite.

N.T. Wright has an essay here which references his essay “The Divinity of Jesus’, in M.J. Borg and N.T. Wright, The Meaning of Jesus: Two Visions (or via: amazon.co.uk)

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12-12-2008, 02:49 PM	#323
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	Doesn't it seem reasonable that he was convicted by the Jews of blasphemy; and that, in order to get a capital sentence from Pilate, they made the charge into sedition?

12-12-2008, 03:02 PM	#328
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	The author's name is Christopher Price, though, not Tom Wright; unless there are two papers called "Jesus's Divinity Within Jewish Monotheism".

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