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Old 06-05-2006, 10:30 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian
I am sure that there is a reason why θεος appears in the nominative but I cannot say at the moment why that would be true when εις is removed.
I believe it would be because θεος is agreeing with τις across the (adverbial) conjunction ει μη. When the εις is present, then θεος is agreeing with εις (by way of apposition), which in turn is agreeing with τις across the conjunction.

This is the same construction as in John 17.12, in which ο υιος agrees with ουδεις across the conjunction ει μη.

(The English except can be either a conjunction or a preposition; I do not think the Greek ει μη ever functions as a true preposition, though I am of course open to correction on that.)

See also Mark 13.32 for another similar construction.

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Old 06-05-2006, 10:58 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben C Smith
I believe it would be because θεος is agreeing with τις across the (adverbial) conjunction ει μη. When the εις is present, then θεος is agreeing with εις (by way of apposition), which in turn is agreeing with τις across the conjunction.

This is the same construction as in John 17.12, in which ο υιος agrees with ουδεις across the conjunction ει μη.

(The English except can be either a conjunction or a preposition; I do not think the Greek ει μη ever functions as a true preposition, though I am of course open to correction on that.)

See also Mark 13.32 for another similar construction.

Ben.
Thanks for making it clear, Ben, both the grammar and my feeble understanding of Greek. Now that you have clarified the passage, it suddenly seems obvious...

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Old 06-05-2006, 08:21 PM   #43
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JW:
Fortunately for me, since I believe that the Impossible is Impossible I Am a Fundamentalist Atheist so I have Faith that Codex Bezae says whatever Bet Ehrancyman sez it does rather than what Code Bezae says it does. For the unfaithful though who require something more than just my say so (like evidence):

http://alpha.reltech.org:8083/cgi-bi...MSS/U5?seq=575

Wow, look at all these funky characters. What is this, Coptic? Just kidding Chris. (mods, still waiting to find out how I filter so that everyone sees that last line except for Chris).

Ookay, 5th line, start with the 7th character from the Right (if you're following at Homoclueton this is the End of Mark 2:7):

Ε Ι----Μ Η----Ο----Θ Ε? [missing letters?]

if-----not-----the--[First letter of "God", possibly second, missing last two letters]

The usual phrase is:

Ε Ι----Μ Η----E I Σ----Ο----Θ Ε Ο Σ

if-----not-----one----(the)--God [read as "if not (the) one God"]


My guess is the last 3 letters are illegible here and Ehrman is right but...:

Opinion Mr. Skeptic?



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Old 06-06-2006, 07:07 AM   #44
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JW:
By The Way, in reference to my previous post, in order to access Codex Bezae at:

http://alpha.reltech.org:8083/cgi-bi...MSS/U5?seq=575

if you are not already a Subscriber enter "any" for User and Password.



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Old 06-06-2006, 07:30 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeWallack
Ε Ι----Μ Η----Ο----Θ Ε? [missing letters?]

if-----not-----the--[First letter of "God", possibly second, missing last two letters]
I cannot see the page but I would bet that ΘΕΟΣ is written as a nomina sacra in which case it would only be two letters. Does it look sort of like a ΘC with a line over it? If it does then it is just a nomina sacra version of Θεος.

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Old 06-06-2006, 08:01 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW
Ε Ι----Μ Η----Ο----Θ Ε? [missing letters?]

if-----not-----the--[First letter of "God", possibly second, missing last two letters]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian
I cannot see the page but I would bet that ΘΕΟΣ is written as a nomina sacra in which case it would only be two letters. Does it look sort of like a ΘC with a line over it? If it does then it is just a nomina sacra version of Θεος.

JW:
Well, as that great 20th century philosopher, Kramer, would say, "Uh bingo!". See, that's the advantage of me being able to take Ehrman as correct based on Faith.

If you or anyone else still can't see it after typing in "any" for user name and password let me know and I can post a picture at Picture Shack and than reference it here so it will show visually in a post.



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Old 06-06-2006, 08:06 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by JoeWallack
If you or anyone else still can't see it after typing in "any" for user name and password let me know and I can post a picture at Picture Shack and than reference it here so it will show visually in a post.
That would be helpful. I am not getting the chance to enter a password; the page just refuses to load, period.

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Old 06-06-2006, 08:10 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian
Does it look sort of like a ΘC with a line over it? If it does then it is just a nomina sacra version of Θεος.
It takes real talent to read a manuscript without even being able to see the manuscript. Reminds me of Luke Skywalker attacking the Death Star without his scope. Use the force, Julian.

Good show.

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Old 06-06-2006, 08:35 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian
I cannot see the page but I would bet that ΘΕΟΣ is written as a nomina sacra in which case it would only be two letters. Does it look sort of like a ΘC with a line over it? If it does then it is just a nomina sacra version of Θεος.
I can bring up the image just fine. As you suspected, it include the standard nomen sacrum for God, ΘC with the line over it.
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Old 06-06-2006, 08:41 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by JoeWallack
Well, as that great 20th century philosopher, Kramer, would say, "Uh bingo!".
Was that Floyd?
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