the_cave

Well...actually, I believe the answer is indeed yes, believe it or not. You see it has to do with the trinity...at which point I admit the discussion can become somewhat bizarre.

In a nutshell, traditional Christian theology states that Christ, i.e. the second person of God, did indeed absolutely die on the cross. So yes, god died. I guess that means the sentences "God did not die" and "God died" are both true. God the Trinity did not die like the rest of us do--but God the Son did. What can I say--that's the Trinity for ya...I personally find it an interesting way of conceptualizing things, even if others find it immensely baffling nonsense.

It's true he was resurrected later--some Christians say he knew this would happen, others say he didn't. I say he didn't, and I agree it seems like it would be much less impressive if he did.

Angrillori

Heh. I can't see how god could have NOT known he was going to be ressurected.

I mean don't xians say there are prophecies regarding the ressurection? Who made the prophecies?

God: I think I'll go and fulfill my own prophecy with myself today. Drat! I've forgotten them all! Oh well, I'll just make it up as I go along. I'll do something and trust someone will find a way to make it fit. My believers will believe ANYTHING!

Demosthenes

Given how this thread has evolved, it seems that it would be better served if it was in the GR forum. If you posters think that it'll receive better traffic there, I'll be glad to move it. Up to you guys...

Demosthenes

Infidelettante

Response to Magus
Just how Magus did the goal become the righteousness of God? The law did not equate to the righteousness of God. Nowhere in the OT is the requirement found that people attain the righteousness of God. This doctrine was not only unheard of until Paul it is unthinkable until Paul. When was it revealed that the standard to which human were to be held was Gods righteousness?

Is this the standard because God’s righteousness does not allow sin in his presence? But this is a lie. God lived for thirty years in the presence of sin. Why could he not have lived in the presence of sin as Jesus forever? Would this not have been the greater sacrifice? Greater even than taking on the worlds sin for a few hours.

Would it not have been the greater sacrifice for your God to live veiled in flesh among the poor and the hungry? Would it not have been the greater sacrifice for your God to remain among the lepers and the lame? Would it not have been the greater sacrifice for your God to remain among the fallen women and the demon possessed?

Why does John 3:16 not read “For God so loved the world that he stayed and he healed it, and fed it, and freed it, and he raised it from the dead.”

No, the trouble is not that we don’t understand how horrible it was for Jesus. Rather we understand how horrible it has been without Jesus. Your God sacrificed humanity on the altar of his own petty ego. He could live among us still. What your God could do for thirty years he could do for thirty million.

But, your God chose a path that led to the eternal torture of billions of beings he professed to love. The problem is that your God chose the easy, quick way out and does not seem to care that it is his own creation that suffers. Your God set in motion a vast concentration camp complete with ovens at the end and blames the inmates for their fate.

JT

Magus55

Actually, Jesus did know He would be ressurected. He said it would happen before the crucifixion.

Jhn 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Magus55

God commanded that we be righteous by faith and following the law. He said that to Abraham.

God the Father can't be in the precense of sin. Jesus was human, and therefore could. And if Jesus didn't die, who would have saved humanity?

Sure Jesus could have stayed here and healed the lame, fed the hungry etc., but who would have payed for our sins? How would we ever be reconciled with God the Father?



And had He stayed on Earth, people would have still broken the law, sinned, and rejected Him, but this time, ALL of humanity would be lost. There would be no one to pay the penalty for sin and bear the sins of the world so that we could be saved. Sure, there would be a lot of healthy and cured people, but we would still all be lost.

No, God chose the only path to save humanity. But He only opened the door and made it possible. Its up to us to walk through it.

Demosthenes

Hi all, after some discussion, we feel that you'll get more responses in GR so off it goes there.

Kosh

Lawyer: Now, Mr. Magus, please explain to us how you claim to have fixed the numerous problems that you say the car had, and why you charged such an outrageous fee?

Magus: Well, I got down on my hands and knees and sucked on the exhaust pipe, which quickly fixed EVERY problem that the car had.

Lawyer: But the car had no problems, and how could sucking on the exhaust pipe actually fix problems if there were any?

Magus: Well, if I hadn't sucked on the pipe, then nobody would have fixed all the problems with the car.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
God the Father can't be in the precense of sin.

So after Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they were still not sinful? Why did he throw them out of the garden then? That's very mean of him.

hinduwoman

To someone raised outside the Christian culture it does not make sense why the death of one innocent should wash away the sins of all other men.
I myself did not realise how absurd it actually sounds until I had to explain it to a bunch of teenagers who just statred at me blankly.