Chili

Quite possible and still true. As a dual identity Jesus was an ex Jew, as a Son-of-God Jesus was never a Jew. In the last post I tried to make clear that by ex-Jew it must not be understood that Jesus ben Joseph (is that better?) left Judaism angry with some permanent bitterness and resentment. Judaism had served him well and had served him very well and every Jew till this day should be very proud of that.

I never denied the fact that they did not have the right to crucify him from their perspective because they were looking at Jesus as a Jew which he was not but Jesus needed them to finish what Judaism had started. Let me read this to you from John 16:1-4
"I have told you all of this
to keep your faith from being shaken.
Not only will they expel you from the synagogues;
a time will come when anyone who puts you to death
will claim to be serving God!
All this they will do [to you]because they knew neither the Father nor me [the Christ].
But I have told you these things
that when their hour comes
you may remember my telling you of them."

In John Pilate said three times "look at the man" but they insisted that he was a Jew and violated their laws (Jn.19:7).

Chili

But Non-believer, you don't have to believe a word I write. I am not here to convert anyone but if anything I am trying to show that 'the rest of the world' (?) has everything about religion just backwards.

Non-believer

I'm here for stimulating discussions. If I come off as harsh I apologize.

Sheshbazzar

And that is not the least bit arrogant on your part? All of Christianity, millions of believers, tens of thousands of learned Biblical scholars, "have everything about religion just backwards" that doesn't conform to your self created Theology?
You set yourself up as the single ultimate authority on earth, as to the meaning and interpretation of every verse? and if other Christians disagree with your opinions, Well they "have everything about religion just backwards" ?
Not to put too fine a point on it Chili, but Christianity as a collective body has never taught such an arcane 'gospel' as you are attempting to foist off here, The Pope wouldn't buy it, The Mormons wouldn't buy it, The Baptist's wouldn't buy it, The Adventist's wouldn't buy it, and the atheist are not going to buy it either.

Chili

It can't be arrogant because I am not part of my argument. I am not a so called Christian and have nothing to gain or lose in my presentation. I am not a theologian and if I like to tamper with Gods word it should be welcome on the atheist board, especially in the philosophy department.

Oh and yes, I have no problem calling the Mormons, the Baptists, the Adventists and all the other demoninations except Judaism and Catholicism wrong in the end.

Chili

No you're not and I can always defend myself. I am just not interested in argueing over translations with a mandate.

If I make a run-on sentence it is to shorten the post but I can take you through it step by step if you like. The problem with that is that it will take more explanations about explanations and that becomes rather complicated.

But do you not agree that the name Jesus is not the same as Christ or they would have called him Christ? I even see a transition from Joseph to John, to Jesus, to John, to Jesus to Christ, to Christ Jesus and finally to Jesus Christ. With this I mean that John was part of the same metaphysical event who introduced Jesus and finally was recognized as the son of Mary with "there is your mother."

Sheshbazzar

[edited -V]
But that is not how I actually perceive your postings spread across these Forums,
No, rather these forums are like a picnic table spread with carefully prepared dishes, the labors of honest men striving to separate fact from fiction, and myth from reality,(of which you have no care at all) the diners are the readers of these post, and above us all flies the crow that spatters the party with vile droppings.

Sheshbazzar

V- could you not have at least left, "At last you speak a 'little' truth.."?

Sheshbazzar

Perhaps you miscalculate the morality of atheist, men of integrity do not take pleasure in tampering with the text of the Scriptures, quite the contrary, the effort is to determine what was actually the original text and its intended application and meaning. And let that be preserved as a witness against its contradictions and fabrications.
(and the outlandish claims of self appointed experts, fanatics and loonies)
There are Forums here on Internet Infidels that deal with the issues of atheist morality, if it pleases you "to tamper with Gods word" then you really ought to visit these other Forums and learn a little about morality and integrity.

Chris Weimer

I think Josephus reports about 19 Jesus' around that time...

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com