Freethought & Rationalism Archive

wordy · 09-05-2006, 01:03 PM

Hey Tammuz and Toto!

No he is not a historian or well read in such studies. Organized secular Humanists seems very political in their "progressive" views. They have "faith" in human abilities. I am skeptical to that kind of optimism. We humans seems to be more biased from our evolutionary past than they want to admit.

Newton's Cat · 09-05-2006, 05:02 PM

Paul was one smart dude, more than capable of inventing a character like Jesus ....

... Christ was someone else's idea.

Solo · 09-05-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

There are many humanists who like Jesus as a historical character. In fact, humanists are probably responsible for the idea that Jesus was a real person in first c. Palestine who taught peace and communism and pissed off the authorities.

Actually, I know even some communists who promoted Jesus as a communist rebel. The best movie I have ever seen about Jesus was by an Italian communist Pier Paolo Pasolini Il Vangelo Secondo Matteo (The Gospel according to Matthew), an absolutely stunning filmmaking with no gimmicks, Just Russian revolutionary chorals in the background of the man laying down the Red law. On the Vatican list of top fifteen religious movies ever made.

Jiri

wordy · 09-06-2006, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Christ was someone else's idea

You could be very right. The Essene? collective had high views on their "Teacher" and even gnostic sects long before Jesus had views on a cosmic Christ.

It could be Paul then who invented Jesus or stole the myth from other sects.

So if Lena Eindhorn claims that Paul was known as Jesus that could be wrong. He could have been known as Saul up to the Damascus event. There he realized him could outcompete all the other leaders claiming Christ to be Lord.

Magdlyn · 09-06-2006, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

Actually, I know even some communists who promoted Jesus as a communist rebel. The best movie I have ever seen about Jesus was by an Italian communist Pier Paolo Pasolini Il Vangelo Secondo Matteo (The Gospel according to Matthew), an absolutely stunning filmmaking with no gimmicks, Just Russian revolutionary chorals in the background of the man laying down the Red law. On the Vatican list of top fifteen religious movies ever made.

Jiri

That list is 11 years old. I wonder if there is a newer one that includes The Passion of the Gibson?

Magdlyn · 09-06-2006, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordy

You could be very right. The Essene? collective had high views on their "Teacher" and even gnostic sects long before Jesus had views on a cosmic Christ.

It could be Paul then who invented Jesus or stole the myth from other sects.

"Stealing" is such a strong word. Religious syncretism had a long history before Paul came on the scene.

Quote:

So if Lena Eindhorn claims that Paul was known as Jesus that could be wrong. He could have been known as Saul up to the Damascus event. There he realized him could outcompete all the other leaders claiming Christ to be Lord.

There was no "Damascus event."

wordy · 09-08-2006, 09:42 AM

I almost read the book today in the book cafe. I turned every page but only read a meaning or two on each page and more lines at the interesting pages.

I will buy the book when it comes in pocket next year or year after. I is very popular here. She consider Appolonius too as a possible inspiration for the jesus myth.

Paul not having a Damascus event? Why not? That could be true. sure he could have made it up too. But then Buddha could have made his event under the tree up too?

Roller · 09-08-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Paul not having a Damascus event? Why not? That could be true. sure he could have made it up too.

Is there a similar deconversion to Paul's somewhere in Maccabees?

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09-05-2006, 01:03 PM	#11
wordy Contributor Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden, Europe Posts: 12,091	Hey Tammuz and Toto! No he is not a historian or well read in such studies. Organized secular Humanists seems very political in their "progressive" views. They have "faith" in human abilities. I am skeptical to that kind of optimism. We humans seems to be more biased from our evolutionary past than they want to admit.

09-05-2006, 05:02 PM	#12
Newton's Cat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,181	Paul was one smart dude, more than capable of inventing a character like Jesus .... ... Christ was someone else's idea.

09-08-2006, 09:42 AM	#17
wordy Contributor Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden, Europe Posts: 12,091	I almost read the book today in the book cafe. I turned every page but only read a meaning or two on each page and more lines at the interesting pages. I will buy the book when it comes in pocket next year or year after. I is very popular here. She consider Appolonius too as a possible inspiration for the jesus myth. Paul not having a Damascus event? Why not? That could be true. sure he could have made it up too. But then Buddha could have made his event under the tree up too?

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