Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 04-26-2011, 11:40 AM

Quest for the Historical Satan (or via: amazon.co.uk) scheduled to be released in August, 2011.

Essay on bibleinterp

“If there is evil in a city, has Yahweh not done it?” ~ Amos 3:6

Quote:

God’s portrayal as a character of absolute goodness is the result of a theology that is read into the Christian Scriptures, yet which is not necessarily supported by a close reading of the texts. Not only is this theology challenged by the Bible, it is also challenged by existentially and morally comparing such a theology of absolute Good versus absolute Evil with the realities of life.

...

A simple good versus evil binary understanding of reality leads to an ethical perspective that might cause more evil than good. A world where everyone and everything is either with or against God leads to great atrocities by those “with God” in their defense against the perceived threat of those “against God” (who those on God’s side usually define as Satanic). Because such an ethical framework causes more evil than good, we are in need of a new way of understanding what is satanic, what is Satan.

What if instead our understanding of Satan was influenced by the concept of the “trickster” figure which seems to be present in the Hebrew Bible? Could the concept of the “trickster” perhaps be more in line with the biblical text than the way Satan developed as the personification of absolute Evil? And if so, how does such an understanding of Satan feature in our appreciation of evil? And more importantly, how would Satan as trickster shape our morality?

The essay then goes off on some Jungian speculation about the dark side.

The authors are professors at Iliff School of Theology in Denver.

Quote:

... a graduate theological school related to the United Methodist Church. Its central mission is the education of persons for effective ministry in Christian churches and other religious communities, for academic leadership, and for the cultivation of justice and peace in local and global contexts.

Iliff affirms its United Methodist identity and its liberal Christian heritage, grounded in scriptures and traditions, critical thinking, and openness to emerging truths, including those derived from science, experience, and other faith traditions. ...

avi · 04-26-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iliff school of theology

Iliff affirms its United Methodist identity and its liberal Christian heritage, grounded in scriptures and traditions, critical thinking, and openness to emerging truths, including those derived from science, experience, and other faith traditions

My question to Iliff is this:
How does one derive an emerging truth from faith?

For my money, faith is the obstacle preventing acceptance of truth derived from science.

avi

Toto · 04-26-2011, 02:21 PM

"Emerging" or "emergent" seems to be the buzzword for modern Christianity that has gotten so liberal that the literal meaning of the scripture and church tradition are all just irrelevant.

Hey look - it's even got a wiki entry

Emerging_church

Quote:

Proponents, however, believe the movement transcends such "modernist" labels of "conservative" and "liberal," calling the movement a "conversation" to emphasize its developing and decentralized nature, its vast range of standpoints, and its commitment to dialogue. Participants seek to live their faith in what they believe to be a "postmodern" society. What those involved in the conversation mostly agree on is their disillusionment with the organized and institutional church and their support for the deconstruction of modern Christian worship, modern evangelism, and the nature of modern Christian community. ....

Many of the movement's participants use terminology that originates from postmodern literary theory, social network theory, narrative theology, and other related fields
. . .

Stuart Murray states:

Emerging churches are so disparate there are exceptions to any generalisations. Most are too new and too fluid to clarify, let alone assess their significance. There is no consensus yet about what language to use: 'new ways of being church'; 'emerging church'; 'fresh expressions of church'; 'future church'; 'church next'; or 'the coming church'. The terminology used here contrasts 'inherited' and 'emerging' churches

Doug Shaver · 04-27-2011, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Many of the movement's participants use terminology that originates from postmodern literary theory, social network theory, narrative theology, and other related fields . . .

If they're taking cues from postmodernists, that could explain a thing or two.

PhilosopherJay · 04-27-2011, 07:28 AM

Hi Toto,

Actually, I think the trickster figure would probably fit the Hebrew God better than Satan. He tricks Adam and Eve into leaving the Garden, kills everybody on Earth with a flood, gets Sarah pregnant when she is 90 years old, keeps messing with the Egyptians and then hardens the Pharoah's heart each time he wants to kick the Jews out, keeps the Jews wandering in the desert for 40 years after taking them from their cool homes in Egypt, forces Ezekiel to eat excrement etc. With a God like this, who needs Satan?

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quest for the Historical Satan (or via: amazon.co.uk) scheduled to be released in August, 2011.

Essay on bibleinterp

“If there is evil in a city, has Yahweh not done it?” ~ Amos 3:6

Quote:

God’s portrayal as a character of absolute goodness is the result of a theology that is read into the Christian Scriptures, yet which is not necessarily supported by a close reading of the texts. Not only is this theology challenged by the Bible, it is also challenged by existentially and morally comparing such a theology of absolute Good versus absolute Evil with the realities of life.

...

A simple good versus evil binary understanding of reality leads to an ethical perspective that might cause more evil than good. A world where everyone and everything is either with or against God leads to great atrocities by those “with God” in their defense against the perceived threat of those “against God” (who those on God’s side usually define as Satanic). Because such an ethical framework causes more evil than good, we are in need of a new way of understanding what is satanic, what is Satan.

What if instead our understanding of Satan was influenced by the concept of the “trickster” figure which seems to be present in the Hebrew Bible? Could the concept of the “trickster” perhaps be more in line with the biblical text than the way Satan developed as the personification of absolute Evil? And if so, how does such an understanding of Satan feature in our appreciation of evil? And more importantly, how would Satan as trickster shape our morality?

{snip}
Iliff affirms its United Methodist identity and its liberal Christian heritage, grounded in scriptures and traditions, critical thinking, and openness to emerging truths, including those derived from science, experience, and other faith traditions. ...

DCHindley · 04-27-2011, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

If they're taking cues from postmodernists, that could explain a thing or two.

I think this movement is sometimes called "Reader-Response". That is, the Christian sacred writings are important not for any historical information they contain, but for what they mean to us now, today, for faith and worship. It has a certain appeal to conservatives because it concentrates on Christian scriptures as they exist now, and not on speculation over the way they came to be as we have them.

DCH

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.