FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-13-2005, 12:27 PM   #61
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 4,876
Default

FWIW and IMHO one of the best books about 'The Da Vinci Code' is 'The Real History behind the Da Vinci Code' by the medievalist and historical novelist Sharan Newman.

Andrew Criddle
andrewcriddle is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 02:06 PM   #62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponzi
I think you guys who are saying that people are stupid because they believe a work of fiction are missing the point.

The book may be fiction, but it draws upon real history (and speculative pseudo-history). Thus people will be wondering how much of it is true. Plus there are many works of fiction that do present real history as a background to the story.

So those who believe it is all real may not be the brightest people around, but they aren't completely stupid.
I would certainly never call people "stupid" for believing it. I would only point out that the outrage raises the tale to beyond simple entertainment. Like when Deniro as "Jimmy" is clearly seen in Goodfellas putting ketchup on spaghetti at Joe Pecsi's mother's house- what self respecting eye-talian would ever allow such a thing to happen at the dinner table??? But its a movie, these questions cant be taken all that seriously.
StaticAge is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 02:32 PM   #63
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Why am I still up? It's way past my bedtime.
Posts: 508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponzi
I think you guys who are saying that people are stupid because they believe a work of fiction are missing the point.

The book may be fiction, but it draws upon real history (and speculative pseudo-history). Thus people will be wondering how much of it is true. Plus there are many works of fiction that do present real history as a background to the story.

So those who believe it is all real may not be the brightest people around, but they aren't completely stupid.
Look, there's a difference between an historical novel, such as what Michener used to do, and Eco, and a piece of fiction that uses some history as a motivator for characters in the book. Brown's book is the later. "Historical" statements are placed in the mouths of characters. They may or may not be true. However, as long as the character is true to his or her nature, (shifty liar, self-serving SOB) then the author is successful whether or not that character has stated a factual error.

What is really stupid, just makes me howl, is to ask an author to always place historically accurate statements in the mouths of his characters. People in real life say whatever they want for their own purposes -- how dare them, they even lie. So in Da Vinci Code we have shifty characters stating incorrect things. The book would have been even more cardboard had the characters been cut outs of New York Times science desk fact checkers simply spouting commonly accepted historical truths. Gee, just writing that makes me laugh.

The bottom line. People who're so up-in-arms about DVC, or who believe it's true, aren't so much stupid as they are just too serious about themselves. (They're probably also the same ones who believe aliens landed at Roswell and are now abducting people beacuse they read Whitley Strieber's "Communion: A True Story" -- Note the "true" in the title.)

Respectfully,
The Art Dude
cognac is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 04:52 PM   #64
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StaticAge
You know, calling a work of fiction "a lie" implicates it may possess the authority as something factual. It is a work never claiming itself as "true" and by making a big deal out of an apparent dislike for the elements the story uses for its own ends, you embue it with the very qualities you claim it doesnt possess, that even the author never claimed for it. Was it George Braques who said to the effect that science exists to reassure, and art exists to disturb? Let it disturb you as art then, and leave entertainment where it belongs instead of making it as though it deserves some sort of "truthful" inquiry.
Come now, what I am saying is not rocket science.
Even in a fictional work there many elements which are real and are expected to be real.
Sir Isaac Newton, ... not fiction.
Leonardo Davinci ... not fiction.
Prieuré de Sion ... not fiction
The Catholic church ... not fiction
The dead sea scrolls ... not fiction.
The Last supper by Davinci ... not fiction.
The fact that there really is a woman ... not fiction.

I could go on but you probably get the picture. When you read the Davinci code you expect certain elements to be real.

That last one for example ... did you consider the Last Supper to have a woman or did you consider this fiction?

When the book says that early Christians considered Jesus to be human until Constantine came along and made him into a God some people will consider this real.

That is what I object to. Is this so hard for you guys to understand.

Distortion of facts is not to be confused with creativity.

Fiction should not be a vehicle for spreading untruths.
NOGO is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 05:39 PM   #65
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The largest source of pollution in the U.S.(Orange
Posts: 33
Default

Why doesn't anyone understand that the book has plain, blatant facts in it that any person can easily look up? Its not that hard to see that Brown is right, and that our current feelings toward this subject have been altered by our primarily church inluenced culture.
Tristan C. is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:04 PM   #66
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 759
Default

Quote:
When the book says that early Christians considered Jesus to be human until Constantine came along and made him into a God some people will consider this real.
Ummm people did disagree on the divinity of Jesus until Constantine and his council. Some believed him to be divine, some just a man, some God himself, some believed him to be a subordinate God (not that that STOPPED disagreeing but that something definitive was decided)
SkepticBoyLee is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 02:18 AM   #67
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3,956
Default

Guys, in the recent weeks, the media network in my country had been showing the documentaries on the refutation of Da Vinci code and the 'evil' alternate history theories that the book had been trying to spread.

After that, they switch immediately to some documentaries about the Historical Verification of the Jesus Resurrection!!!! OH mY GOD!!!!!!

They showed lots of 'evidences' ranging from claims Bibical scholars, priests, Bishops, etc.

In short, they showed how wrong Atheists/Skeptics arguments were, are and would be. The documentary ended with the conclusion that Da Vinci Code is one of the 'traditional' atheists' failed attempt to disprove Christianity and Jesus, which, in fact, existed.

:banghead: :banghead:

I think the media in my country will not be showing any skeptic point of view since its already shown or 'proved' to be rubbish...... :banghead:
Answerer is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 02:43 AM   #68
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Singapore.
Posts: 3,401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Answerer
...After that, they switch immediately to some documentaries about the Historical Verification of the Jesus Resurrection!!!! OH mY GOD!!!!!! ...
:banghead:

Don't tell me you actually watched it?
lenrek is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 02:55 AM   #69
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Why am I still up? It's way past my bedtime.
Posts: 508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOGO
When the book says that early Christians considered Jesus to be human until Constantine came along and made him into a God some people will consider this real. Fiction should not be a vehicle for spreading untruths.
Wrong. The "book" doesn't say that. Characters in the book say something.

Please read my above post regarding the NYT Science desk cut outs. It may shed some light on your confusion.
cognac is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 02:58 AM   #70
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 46
Default

I enjoyed it. Remember though, it is just a novel. A well researched novel, to be sure, but a made-up story to entertain the reader. The furor it has caused says more about the readers than about the book or its author.
goozlefotz is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:40 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.