tanya

I have a small, pointy head, does that count?

I like it!!!!
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But, there is one minor problem. I have searched. And searched. And searched some more.

I can find no such reference in the writings of Justin Martyr.

I know of three extant ancient manuscripts of this 2nd century author. I see nothing in the text corresponding to what we write, in English:
'The Memoirs of the Apostles'

Rather, I find many references to Isaiah, and other old testament quotes, without citation, as if recited from memory.

I wonder if, like Victor Borge, a guy who never relied upon printed music while performing at a concert, for he had everything memorized, Justin Martyr wrote quotes from Matthew and Luke, based upon what he remembered, and somehow, we derived from that, the notion of "memoirs", and then from that, to "The Memoirs..."

What I find interesting, in reading Justin Martyr, is that he seems to quote exclusively from Matthew and Luke, not Mark.

Maybe I have not read enough. Perhaps I err. Right now, if I had to bet a wooden nickel, my money would be on the idea that Justin did not have in front of him, any copy of any text, else, like Milton, he was blind when he dictated his texts. I think that there is no such book as "Memoirs of the Apostles", and never was. I imagine that his student, Tatian, created the Diatessaron, not as a revision of "The Memoirs of the Apostles", but to serve as an "abrege", for churches to use, in the days before WalMart, when shoppers required a less expensive version than the full fledged four gospels.

Duvduv

I asked a courteous question and look forward to courteous replies, thank you.

sotto voce

Your apparently stubborn determination not to discuss valid replies to your questions is insulting, is utterly against the spirit of free thought and rationalism, and, in its apparent obsession with politically inspired notions, looks less than benign.

Duvduv

It most certainly is a technical question! Given the fact that all those apologists summarily repeat a set of texts for their canon within a 40 or 50 year period after Constantine, is it improper to ask if such writings are even authentic in relation to whomever held these texts over the centuries and who may have tampered with them??

Why would apologists keep repeating the canon that was ostensibly known for over 200 years to their church officials and members as if they all had to be reminded of such an obvious thing?!

sotto voce

See what I mean.

Duvduv

No I guess I don't see what you "mean." Hopefully others will be able to jump in and clarify.

Duvduv

Note that this author sounds as if the reader is being introduced to some notions that have not been known during the alleged 200-250 years since the religion existed. Of course little is known about the entire life of Eusebius (assuming he existed).

Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Chapter 3.—The Epistles of the Apostles.

1. One epistle of Peter, that called the first, is acknowledged [by whom?] as genuine. And this the ancient elders [who are they and when is "ancient"?] used freely in their own writings as an undisputed work. But we have learned that his extant second Epistle does not belong to the canon; yet, as it has appeared profitable to many, it has been used with the other Scriptures.
2. The so-called Acts of Peter, however, and the Gospel which bears his name, and the Preaching and the Apocalypse, as they are called, we know have not been universally accepted, because no ecclesiastical writer, ancient or modern, [who are they?] has made use of testimonies drawn from them.

Iskander

Asking who kept the butter is not a technical question
Your questions are usually not questions at all, but something else less dignified. You are a very noisy tiresome fellow.


Technical , adjective

1 [usually before noun] connected with the practical use of machinery, methods, etc. in science and industry
We offer free technical support for those buying our software.
a technical education
technical drawing (= especially taught as a school subject)

2 [usually before noun] connected with the skills needed for a particular job, sport, art, etc
Skaters score extra points for technical complexity.

3 connected with a particular subject and therefore difficult to understand if you do not know about that subject
The article is full of technical terms.
The guide is too technical for a non-specialist

4 [only before noun] connected with the details of a law or set of rules
Their lawyers spent days arguing over technical details.

http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionar...nary/technical

:wave:

Duvduv

"Memoirs of the Apostles" turned into "divine" writings handed down by unknown "fathers" etc. Looks like he got the cue from the virtually unknown Eusebius (263-339) some 40 years earlier. Athanasius was about 45 years old when "Eusebius" died at the age of 73.

Festal Letter of Athanasius (293-373):

3. In proceeding to make mention of these things, I shall adopt, to commend my undertaking, the pattern of Luke the evangelist, saying on my own account, Forasmuch as some have taken in hand to reduce into order for themselves the books termed Apocryphal, and to mix them up with the divinely inspired Scripture, concerning which we have been fully persuaded, as they who from the beginning were eye-witnesses and ministers of the Word, delivered to the Fathers; it seemed good to me also, having been urged thereto by true brethren, and having learned from the beginning, to set before you the books included in the Canon, and handed down, and accredited as divine; to the end that anyone who has fallen into error may condemn those who have led them astray; and that he who has continued steadfast in purity may again rejoice, having these things brought to his remembrance

sotto voce

See what I mean.