Freethought & Rationalism Archive

kcdad · 12-10-2009, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

John Frun (FROM, not Frun, The name is sometimes considered a corruption of "John from (America)") and Molly Pitcher (Mary Ludwig Hays McCauley) are based on REAL persons.

What real person is John/Jon Frun/From/Frum/Frumm/From based on?

I don't know who he was... so?

spamandham · 12-10-2009, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

Don't try that... these serious scholars ARE the minority opinion.

What's the difference between a "scholar" and a "serious scholar"? If the answer is "nothing", then adding "serious" serves only to confuse. The word "scholar" already implies someone who is formally trained and has expertise.

John Kesler · 12-10-2009, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

Who the hell was Paul? He was certainly not a serious Jew. He was a Roman. First and last he was a Roman. Whether Paul believed Adam was a real person or not is irrelevant.

The authors of Tobit and Sirach appear to have believed that Adam was an actual historical person:

Quote:

Tobit 8:6 (NAB)
6 You made Adam and you gave him his wife Eve to be his help and support; and from these two the human race descended. You said, 'It is not good for the man to be alone; let us make him a partner like himself.'

Sirach 49:16 (NAB)
16 Glorious, too, were SHEM and SETH and ENOS; but beyond that of any living being was the splendor of ADAM.

spamandham · 12-10-2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

What real person is John/Jon Frun/From/Frum/Frumm/From based on?

I don't know who he was... so?

So you don't know who he was, but you say he was a real person. Can you at least tell us a little about him? Was he a charismatic preacher perhaps, and that's why cargo cults sprung up around him? Maybe he was a carpenter from Nazareth too.

spamandham · 12-10-2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kesler

The authors of Tobit and Sirach appear to have believed that Adam was an actual historical person:

So do probably about half of modern day Christians and Muslims. The historization of ancient mythical characters continues into the present. Creationists continue to add to the tales when they create harmonizing stories that then get propagated as fact by fellow believers.

Kapyong · 12-10-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapyong

Popeye is based on a real person too.
Does that make Popeye historical ?
K.

If your premise is true, yes, of course.

He was based on a real person.

So, you actually believe Popeye is a historical person?

Wow.

K.

Julio · 12-10-2009, 10:24 PM

This has been a fascinating debate, but at present is degenerating a bit.

kcdad · 12-11-2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

Don't try that... these serious scholars ARE the minority opinion.

What's the difference between a "scholar" and a "serious scholar"? If the answer is "nothing", then adding "serious" serves only to confuse. The word "scholar" already implies someone who is formally trained and has expertise.

A serious scholar studies something with an open mind, not looking to confirm prior knowledge but to seek the truth. A serious scholar studies original documents, not just their translations. A serious scholar doesn't announce his /her findings as if they were the ultimate truth, but presents them to peers for review and criticism.
It is the difference, theologically between Dallas Theological and let's say... almost any other Seminary.

A serious scholar is in for the data, not the conclusions.

Someone who who I don't consider a serious scholar is looking for "an answer", and almost always finds it. That person's goal is the conclusion (that they started with) and not the data. They rely other people's research, other people's opinions and conclusions and pick and choose those that already match up with their own.

This scholar is in it for the conclusion, not the data.

kcdad · 12-11-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapyong

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

If your premise is true, yes, of course.

He was based on a real person.

So, you actually believe Popeye is a historical person?

Wow.

K.

wow. Is that what I wrote, or did you conclude what you started out to prove?

kcdad · 12-11-2009, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kesler

The authors of Tobit and Sirach appear to have believed that Adam was an actual historical person:

I bet they thought the moon was made of green cheese, too... so what?

Do YOU think the various authors of Genesis meant adam and eve to represent real individual human beings?????????????????????????????????????????

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

12-10-2009, 10:24 PM	#137
Julio Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Johannesburg Posts: 5,187	This has been a fascinating debate, but at present is degenerating a bit.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.