Dark Jedi

Bigfoot.

The original bigfoot film that started the whole myth was a hoax. it's creator admitted it was a hoax. There are still many who believe in bigfoot, regardless of this fact. Basing it on previous related mythology (Native American Sasquatch myth) gives it some history and substance to help carry on.
People believe weird things, and pass that belief on to their children. Once you nab a couple of generations, growth is exponetial. The Jesus myth was based on the jewish traditions, and exploited popular mythological tenets like virgin birth, and decendant of gods.

In other words, you can't doubt the genious of whoever created the myth. He (or they) were con men of the highest order.

Gregg

Calling the early Christians "con men" or refering to the origins of Christianity as a "conspiracy" just makes the mythicist case look stupid.

The early Christians sincerely believed in their mythical savior god, Yeshua Christos. Their beliefs developed from the conscious and unconscious synthesis of various beliefs, both new and ancient, floating around the Greco/Roman world.

They didn't set out to "con" anybody--they genuinely believed that the world was coming to an end and that the only way to survive the coming wrath was to be on the inside track with Yeshua.

If any cons or conspiracies happened, it was when the Roman church started stamping out heresies (Christian and otherwise) and consolidating its power.

Doctor X

Celsus:

What? You do not trust the wisdom of Vinny Barbarino?

Seriously--and the only reason for mentioning Scientology other than humor/dispair--is that it certainly answers the question of "how can a religion spread," and, better, "if it was not TRUE, it would not have spread."

No offense to the Scientologists . . . but as Celsus indicates it has some really . . . really silly ideas of which the sentient clams are minor! Indeed, a great book by Martin Gardner, Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science written in the fifties, decimates the movement and predicts it will die out in ten years!

It did not. Yes . . . Scientology has media and now internet to "spread the world," but in the beginning, it required similar "word-of-mouth" and public demonstration that a religion "way back when" would have used.

Thus, for any who still cite it, the "it must be true because it became popular/survived" is just another fallacy [No Latin!--Ed.]

Furthermore, I note the objection of calling Christianity a "con." I understand that and, unless someone digs up the diary of Junior or his Immediate Merry Men, it is speculation as to whether or not proponents of the divinity believed it or not--at least "whomever" started the "he is divine" concept! Return to L. Ron Hubbard, and he clearly knew what he was doing--creating a con.

Similarly, many--I would almost charge "all"--modern faith healers know they are frauds. Of course, standards of evidence were different back then so it was certainly easier to believe without opposition.

--J.D.

Gregg

Being a pure mythicist, I don't think the early Christians took a human being and turned him into a divinity. I think the early Christians were worshippers of a Jewish/mystery cult version of the Hellenistic Logos concept.

It wasn't until somebody wrote an allegorical story about Yeshua in a semi-historical setting that the seed was planted for bringing the mythical savior god to earth.

Doctor X

Indeed, and whether or not early mythmakers "truly believed" in something can be a lot of speculation.

For fun, I have been re-reading Who Wrote the Bible?. I mention this to explain a tangent in that I hit the discussion of the E writer creating the "golden calf" story to denegrate practices of Jeroabam and the Amos priesthood.

So . . . does that mean he thought the whole Exodus was a "myth" a "fraud?" I think he, and other mythmakers saw themselves as "loyal liars," who recast or reinterpreted myth to support what they wanted to believe was true to be true.

I think this is similar to--say--Mt rewritting Mk. I doubt Mt sat there chortling--especially since Lewis Carol had not invented the word yet--about how Mk missed a wonderful opportunity to "scam" people!

--J.D.

Gregg

Well, Deuteronomy is a good example to bring up here. Supposedly at a challenging moment in Israel's history, a book purportedly written by Moses was "miraculously" discovered hidden in the walls of the Temple. It just happened to say everything the king and the priests needed it to say, and when it was read aloud to the people they wailed, tore their clothes and dumped ashes on their heads.

So Deuteronomy probably WAS a case where the priests knew exactly what they were doing.

The priests also rewrote Genesis to include mention of circumcision, since the Jews didn't practice that until the Babylonian exile.

Doctor X

"I didn't know that!"

Do you have a reference?

Incidentally, I love the Deuteronomy story . . . those of you who watch South Park will understand why I have "dum dum dum dum" running through my mind.

--J.D.

Gregg

Ugh. Fraid not. It's been a long time since I read that somewhere. But I'm pretty sure the source was trustworthy.

Doctor X

Not that I do not believe you, just that I can imagine someone objecting to me if I repeat it.

I have a similar "recollection" that "Sabbath" was originally a Babylonian thing which was you did not perform work on a certain day in the month because the "demons were about." The person who told me was/is, not to name drop, highly respected. Of course, I have no reference for that!!

--J.D.

lpetrich

Or to be a bit more precise, the golden-calf story had been invented to discredit the northern kingdom's religious-symbol bull statues.

On the other side, consider the sticks-to-snakes story in Exodus 7, where Aaron's stick-snake eats those of the Egyptian sorcerers. It may have been intended to justify a bronze snake statue, the Nehushtan, that had resided in the Temple until King Josiah decided that it was too idolatrous.

Most of Leviticus goes into rather exacting detail about such subjects as how to perform various rituals, but in Leviticus 10, we find the story of Nadab and Abihu, who were zapped for offering "strange fire". Were they burning incorrect incense?

Richard Price in "Of Myths and Men" suggests that there was some backbiting between rival guilds of priests. The Aaronid priests presided over animal sacrifices, which were ritualized animal slaughter, and got to keep some of their victims. This made them richer than the "sons of Korah", a guild of priestly singers. Thus, the Bible tells us that Korah was swallowed up by the Earth for daring to rebel against Moses, and some of the Psalms reportedly ridicule animal sacrifice.

As to the Sabbath, the original one was the Babylonian "sappatu", celebrated around Full Moon -- once a month, rather than once a week.

Finally, as to chortling, I'm sure that that style of laughter had been practiced long before Lewis Carroll was born.