perfectbite

Sorry Premjan, you are just an honest materialist. Keep plugging.

Betchya didn't think you'd find one outside of India though. Those darn Buddhas, they pop up everywhere even in the most unexpected places.

premjan

Well, I am a close geographical co-locate of Bodhi Dharma who I believe created the Ch'an school.

lenrek

When knowledge is lacking, and people do not understand the working of the phenomenons that they encountered, the interpretation of these phenomenons will most likely be consisting of wrong perceptions and views.

When someone looking at a glass of water, he will see this water as water nothing more. He won't know what consist of these water, he may not know how exactly these water came about (hey, he may just took it out from some nearby river). He may develop ideas that there maybe some kind god or supernatural power that keep the water from overflowing and flooding the land. He may even pray to such ideas or perceptions that these powerful forces will protect him, his family and his friends from harm. Why is this happened? Because he is ignorant about the reality of water.

Another man may start to investigate the river. He may decided to travel upstream of the river and make more investigation of this natural phenomena. This maybe a long and tedious journey. We may eventually discovered, that this water came from the melted snow of a mountains valley that is far from his village. He may further investigate and study the flow of the river and discovered why sometime flooding may occur. From here, he may develop ways to regulate the river to make sure the flow is not congested and able to absorb much larger volumes of water. This man does not see this water, or this river as being dictate by some supernatural powers or beings; it just a natural phenomena that is explainable and knowable.

A wise man may decided to investigate this water. He may decide to mix it with different chemical compound and learn its reactions and behavior. He study the nature of water in details, and able to discover the composite of this water. He may also know how to combine natural elements in order to produce or synthesize water. He may also know how to break the water into its own natural elements. He see the water not just as water, he see the water with insights.

The wise will be view with admiration by those who with well knowledge, but will be view as radical, being blasphemous and with despise by the ignorant.

Buddhism assert how the phenomena of world is; we are suppose to see its working, its manifestation, its resultant and its consequent. We still see the phenomena as in the conventional sense, however, we view with additional insights of their realities.


Of course, this is just a plain assertion made by a Buddhist; however, it is what we stand.

PS: This thread is getting interesting... :thumbs:

Mr Average

Deeply interested in the spiritual life I am, and am also intrigued by what you have said so far. I have no desire to 'tear your throat out', But I would like to discuss what you have learned though.

In Peace [and I do mean it ], Mr Average

David B

What requirement was that? I don't recall making any such requirement. What I was interested in was the hypothesis that mind could exist before life, which, if not, whot make invalid the first line of the second verse you pasted over. Short of proof, a reasonable hypothesis would do. I can't help wondering if one of the attributes of a Zen master is to misrepresent what other people say - as you did before when saying that something I'd said led to a view that reading Shakespeare was silly. When what I said didn't imply that at all.

Well, I suppose you could define things in such a way that everything that becomes an object of consciousness becomes a part of consciousness. How would that be helpful to understanding consciousness or stones?



Well, unless you can come up with a coherent explanation of how mind could exist prior to life, I'd see it as the other way round

LOL! In view of your para below, I'd suggest a little self anaysis here!

If so, what about their grasp of reality? If they are building a philosophy based on the assumptions of the verses you pasted over, then they are building their understanding on false premise, I'd say.

Well the fact that you attribute things to me that I haven't said, and jump to spurious conclusions about them is a something of a contributing factor.

If 'as qualified as yourself' includes the ability to put words in my mouth that I haven't sait, and draw false conclusions from what I have said, then I won't be desperately seeking them


Better in the sense that it avoids you having to explain how mind can exist before life, and how all that we are is the product of our thoughts?

David B

perfectbite

And that he did around the 6th. century CE although he had to spend nine years staring at at cave wall and cut his upper eyelids off so that he wouldn't doze off.

My Dharma teacher was Vietnamese Ch'an lineage so I guess that would make us geographically related in some way.

premjan

Interesting, Bodhi Dharma's hometown Kanchipuram (in Tamil Nadu) is today famous for silk sarees.

JGL53

And I am The Grand High Imperial Poo Bah of the ONE TRUE RELIGION and the Paraclete of the Lord.

And Alan Watts had more humility in the tip of one finger than apparently a lot of people have in their whole bodies.

Alan Watts - what a stupid bastard he was.

premjan

Geez I was only kidding...

JGL53

Oh, I knew YOU were............