Duvduv

Repeating "the point" is what goes on on this Forum all the time.....However, in this case your reply applies the principle of superimposing on ancient history the way of behavior of modern times out of context of the event discussed, which is insufficient.
It seems to avoid the point that the idea of canon was determined by authority, not by every Tom, Dick and Harry. Otherwise we would indeed find examples of competing canons, i.e. a canon involving 5 epistles and 6 gospels, etc. You get the point......

Duvduv

Epiphanius wrote Panarion after the middle of the 4th century.

Athanasius wrote his Festal Letter referring to the kanonizomena around the same time.

Councils still found themselves ruling on the canon into the beginning of the 5th century.

And all of this was over 200 years after the alleged 2nd century apologists enumerated the books of Christianity with no indication at all of any church synods at all.

Toto

But there was at least one competing canon that we know about - Marcion's. Marcion had no official authority, but he (or someone) had leadership qualities that lead a lot of people to follow him. The usual story is that the 4th century canon started as a counter to Marcion's.

Duvduv

That itself begs the question because who was authorizing Marcion to produce a canon in the first place to place alongside the Old Testament canon (which just happened to be the same epistles as the orthodox)?

Where did he get the set of epistles from? Where were they before his set? And the same for a gospel?

We have already discussed the flimsy nature of the Marcion story, not the least of which emerges from the absence of any discussion of a canon or epistles etc. stated in the apology of "Justin" who allegedly lived in the same time and town as Marcion.

There is just no surviving samples of a competing "canon" enshrined by a synod or the like.

In any case the orthodox were still canonizing two hundred years after the alleged first references in the
2nd century.

Toto

Nobody. That's the point.

Who "authorized" L. Rod Hubbard to produce the official canon of Scientology?

Huon

Who was authorizing Marcion ? Marcion, of course.

How do you know that ? Possibly they have same titles, but can you show the Marcionite content compared to the "orthodox" content ?

sotto voce

People can think for themselves. Amazing, but true.

Duvduv

Well, you can check the text called Panarion which discusses details of what is alleged to be the problem in the Marcion texts. But I do think both of you are ignoring the facts of the overall context of what constituted canons of the "church." Where is there mention of a Marcion synod?!

Huon

Of course, there is a mention of a Marcionite synod in the complete works of Marcion, which have been religiously preserved by the catholics.

Huon

Alfred Loisy (1857-1940) was excommunicated vitandus in 1908 by Pius X, which means that all catholics were forbidden to speak to him. Being a good catholic, sotto voce applies this law.