Kosh

Just thought you'd all get a kick out of an excerpt about Leno's joke on the tonight show....

Malachi151

I don't know if anyone posted this on not, I didn't read it all, but IMO the biggest black eye of this film was that Gibson and the actor who played Jesus were Catholics, the angery mob, were "very Jewish."

Jesus (real or fictional) was a Jew "for Chrst's sake", when will we ever get a really Semitic Jesus?

This is still blatant rascism, still adhering to the idea that "Jesus is one of us," not "them."

What a farce. At least he was not blond as in King of Kings.

As for long hair, I don't see why he could not have had long hair, as he would have been a rebel, however it is more likely that the modern image of Jesus comes rather from Zoroaster.

As for the Catholic thing though, people have to realize that the Catholics have a very long history of deep anti-Semitism, for blaming the Jews for killing Jesus, a multitude of Insqusitions, and the Catholic involvement with the fascists of WWII. Don't listen to the WWII apologists, the fact is that every fascist, or fascist supporting nation was heavily Catholic asside from Japan, and it was through the Vatican that much of the global support for fascism was raised, that being the support in South America, Ireland, Spain, Portugol, Vichy France, etc, etc. Everywhere you look in WWIII it was the Catholics fighting for fascism, and extermination of "the Jews who killed Jesus."

sullster

Your linking of catholicism and Fascism/Nazism has truth to it but it is erroneous to exempt protestantism, especially in Germany.

Martin Luther,a German and the founder of the protestant revolution, was as anti-Jewish as any catholic. The Protestant Reformation was full of anti-Jewish sentiment and given their skills at writing propaganda, they were more articulate than the catholics.

I am not letting the catholics and the Vatican off the hook here. I just want to take issue with a blanket concept that the Nazi murder of the Jews was soley a catholic inspired event. Nonsense. The Protestants of Europe have as much Jewish blood on their hands as do the Catholics. They all fell off the abyss into the depths of nihilism.

Malachi151

Definately Protestantism played a role as well, but it was more at the social level, whereas the Catholic support was more of an institutional thing.

Protestant attitudes helped the cause of fascism in Germany, but the Catholic Church institutionally organized and supported fascism and oversaw a global program of fascim, especially in dealing with South America. The European fascists were developing plans to incorproate South America into a New World Order which would form a trading block to exclude America and Asia prior to the American entry into the war, then afterwards the Cathilic Ratline helped Nazi war criminals escape to South America, where fascism has endured through to today, the war between fascism and Marxists has been going on in South America for the past 50 years with the Catholics continuing the support the fascists.

But as for the issues you bring up, yes, I cover many of them here in this piece:

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/un...ng_fascism.htm

Doctor X

I tried to post this earlier, but the Forces of Darkness [All Rights Reserved.--Ed.] screwed with the board.

Joe:

Well, I would rather give than receive! This one does not work. However, there is evidence of the soldiers doing exactly that in Josephus:

However, it supports the rest of your points because the real Pilate would hardly quiver and shake under the gaze of a Jewish High Priest.

--J.D.

EGGO

See now I think the same too, simply because it would be physically impossible for the person to stay on if it was on the hands. My girlfriend's parents say it's the hands, though, simply because the bible says so. What can I do that can counter the "Bible says so" bit?

agnawstick

Well, I am taking it on it's own merits mind you. Assuming for a second that the bible is true, this movie is deeply fucked.

The things Mel added, like oh... Judas crawling on the floor for money, jews being bribed to turn against Jesus, Jesus telling Pilate it isn't his fault it is "their's", that covers most of the anti semetism stuff.

The added violence of Jesus being lobbed off a bridge, nearly garroted by a chain, a bird pecking somebody's eyes out alive, the cross being flipped over first, before raised, so Jesus could get a nice thorn crown impalement, those are all Gibson "special touches". Look too for the demonic children chasing Judas, and him discovering a maggot infested donkey carcass. That one is good for kicks.

Much of the weird added stuff is from this whackjob 19th century German nun who had "visions" of the passion. In her "vision", Pilate was not so bad, his wife was so swell that she handed Mary some cloth so she could wipe up Jesus' blood, and they dislocated Jesus' shoulder with a rope to fit him on the cross. All from her book, and all in the movie.

This movie is very dangerous. I predict rising attacks against Jews, be they religious or not, a new era of holier than thou crap from fundies. Gibson is a very sick sadomasochist. It shows in his earlier work. Nothing he has done before can top this though. This movie is a freak show.

Prodigal Son

Actually, the poster for the film says that there is a novelization. How stupid is that?

Kosh

He he.

"The Gospel According to Mel", or should I say..... "GMl"

JoyJuice

Another oddity when it comes to Mel’s depiction of the Passion narrative, I think Barabbas is getting the short end of the stick in his depiction by Mel. He’s depicted as a wild eyed crazed, grunting, murderer who the crowd is in fear of as they part to let him make his way when released, however in John, Luke, and Mark states:

John 18:40 They shouted back, "No, not him! Give us Barabbas!" Now Barabbas had taken part in a rebellion .

Luke 23:19 Barabbas had been thrown into prison for an insurrection in the city, and for murder.

Mark 15:7 A man called Barabbas was in prison with the insurrectionists who had committed murder in the uprising.

So in the eyes of Pilate he may be a murderer, but it seems that Barabbas was in prison for civil disobedience and murder, as part of an uprising, a revolution, for the Jews and against Roman rule. As a revolutionary, surely he would have been somewhat a hero, No?