Freethought & Rationalism Archive

JoyJuice · 06-22-2006, 06:42 AM

Enjoy:

Quote:

"Knowledge: “An understanding of words, concepts and ideas that are independent or transcendent from deterministic necessity.”

If knowledge exists, then atheism is contradictory & theism must be true.

<edit for copyright, plagierism issues>

As it stands, the arguer, by giving a counter argument, implies that he has examined & knows the argument, the facts & is able to come to an independent conclusion; a conclusion that is not forced by any material factors. The atheistic cosmologies will not allow for that; they do not have the elements that allow for free-thinking."

Sarpedon · 06-22-2006, 06:52 AM

JoyJuice, you must cite where this quote came from, and provide a link, lest I delete it as a possible copywrite violation.IIdB policy is that if you are quoting another online source, you MUST identify it, and provide a link, and, if it is copywrited, Post no more than 10% of it, and link the rest.

fromdownunder · 06-22-2006, 04:52 PM

It appears to be this article, but the version appearing here has been reworded somewhat.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~gbl111/atheism1.htm

Norm

JoyJuice · 06-23-2006, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fromdownunder

It appears to be this article, but the version appearing here has been reworded somewhat.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~gbl111/atheism1.htm

Norm

Oh snap, plagerism too!

thanks fromdownunder.

Feel free to delete it Sarpedon.

Awmte · 06-23-2006, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoyJuice

Enjoy:
<snip long-winded exposition>

Naturalism, per se, isn't necessarily deterministic. I think the OP just demonstrates a lack of knowledge of Heisenberg's principle. Even if the universe appears deterministic at the macroscopic level, nature is fundamentally unpredictable and capricious at the quantum level.

Indeed, radioactive decay can be used as a random number generator chiefly because of its completely unpredictable nature.

It isn’t hard to intuit that this randomness will percolate up to at least a semi-macroscopic scale (such as causing your neurons to fire), so we can’t blithely assume that “matter in motion” naturalism will result in a completely deterministic universe.

show_no_mercy · 06-24-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

If knowledge exists, then atheism is contradictory & theism must be true.

Knowledge doesn't exist, though. It's an abstract concept that we arbitrarily associate with intellectual and mental faculties primarily for use within the context of language and communication.

06-22-2006, 06:52 AM	#2
Sarpedon Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le Posts: 8,446	Mod Warning: JoyJuice, you must cite where this quote came from, and provide a link, lest I delete it as a possible copywrite violation.IIdB policy is that if you are quoting another online source, you MUST identify it, and provide a link, and, if it is copywrited, Post no more than 10% of it, and link the rest.

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06-22-2006, 04:52 PM	#3
fromdownunder Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Lara, Victoria, Australia Posts: 2,780	It appears to be this article, but the version appearing here has been reworded somewhat. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~gbl111/atheism1.htm Norm

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