Phlox Pyros

Peter,

With respect to the word EMPATEFR, what do you think of the following entry in Crum's...

MPATE (top left column, first entry)

Seems to mean something like "what has not happened yet" which is sort of "before". The E and FR could be some sort of pre and post-fixes with which I am not familiar...

Come on! Where are our Coptic experts!!! :grin:

Phlox Pyros

What does the bar above some letters mean? In Greek, it usually means the letter is actually a number...

The F of EMPATEFR looks like a fairly common suffix, but I can't figure out what the R would be for.

Roger Pearse

An allegation has been made that the text published is not the entire text that existed in 1983. See the link Most of the Judas Gospel has disappeared.

The material comes from the site of the maverick art dealer Michel van Rijn. However it may involve a mistake or misunderstanding somewhere along the line, of course.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Bboyneko

This is not as relevant as the gospel of thomas. If someone finds the gospel of Q please let me know, THAT would be the find of the century.

S.C.Carlson

I think that part of the answer is that not all of the 60 or so pages of the codex turned out to be part of the Gospel of Judas, but part of other texts.

Stephen

Roger Pearse

I suspect so too. Van Rijn is not reliable, but does get hold of interesting bits. The 'translation' of the GoJ that he published ages ago looks very like the fragments of Allogenes.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

MJ67

I gather then that what you are saying is that you lean toward the novice approach as not yet having being influenced by corrupt practice, even though you seek out the assistance of others. This is a paradox, for, where I would like to think that accepted transliterations and or translations are true and honest, it leads me to believe that the novice, seeking to expand his/her knowledge must depend on those who, having passed the novice stage, are inclined to join the ranks of the deceptive. Yet, are there any novices within these fora who have not referenced the reputed scholars? None of whom it seems are to be or can be confused with being a novice.

The paradox for me therefore is such: one is either an accepted scholar, ergo, a ranked deceptive, or, a fringe translator whose works would be subject to extreme scrutiny by the scholars.

I ask the questions not to be argumentative, but to understand the nature of the minds behind the posts.

Peter Kirby

You can start by dispensing with the notion that I think the experts are deceptive. (I suggested nothing of the sort.) Once that is done, there's nothing left of your reply. You might want to try again.

regards,
Peter Kirby

Phlox Pyros

Nope...no scholars or teachers. It just all pops into our heads.

Everyone relies on someone to teach them something.

Everyone has their own set of beliefs and experiences which influence their work.

The more information taken in by various people with experience in a chosen topic, the better chance you have of finding the information with which you agree.

Obviously it is a relatively subjective process...most everything in life is.

Phlox Pyros

A Very Amateur Translation Of The Newly Discovered Gospel of Judas

(1) The word
(2) secret
(3) of the denial
(4) belonging to
(5) Jesus
(6) said
(7) with
(8) Judas
(9) Iscariot
(10) during
(11) the eight
(12) days
(13) from the time of
(14) forward
(15) the three
(16) days
(17) before
(18) Passover.

I confirmed with someone who knows Coptic much better than I do that "EMPATE-F-R" means (in essense) "before". "EMPATE", as I found in Crum's dictionary earlier apparently is the conjugation of "not yet" or "before". The "F" is a pronomial suffix meaning "he" or "it". The "R" is apparently the root word (construct-unstressed) and comes from "EIRE", meaning "do". Obviously, a literal translation of this into English does not come across very well, so "before Passover" is probably a decent translation.

I just ordered Lamdin's Grammar. Ready to move forward with more!?