Gawen

What I'm understanding is the gods El and Yahweh are distinct gods from each other. Yahweh was worshiped as a war god from the deserts of southern Palestine who migrated north to Judah while El was the high god of a pantheon of Israel whose home was Mesopotamia.

But we have two separate gods from different parts of the region. Can it be understood that El was the high god and the others "sons of the high god"? It doesn't make much sense to me when you add in the Assyrians, Arameans, Canaanites, etc.

El is the focus of earliest traditions, it seems. It was El who appeared to Jacob and El is the god named at known sites (unconfirmed sources)--Bethel, Penuel, El Berith and on the altar it says "El is the god of Israel. But somewhere, some people say the Assyrians destroyed "El".

Then, when the Yahwistic Hebrews (from where?) somehow dislodged those in power in Canaan, the sons of Jacob and the indigenous peoples created a new national identity they chose to call Israel. Yahweh filled the vacancy left by Hadad and El returned to his role as chief executor. In Jerusalem, Zedek disappeared and Yahweh replaced him. Yahweh became the son of El Elyon. He was assigned by El to rule over Jacob.

Later, in theory, David was to regard Yahweh as El's subordinate, but in practice, it couldn't be done because David was from Judah and had only worshiped Yahweh? El was foreign to both him and his people? Yet, it was understood that the North and the South were to regard themselves as one people--Israelites?

Honestly, this is plain nuts. How does one make any sense of it without injecting considerable conjecture?

Minimalist

Begin by deleting anything in the bible tale. What is left (and I warn you that it isn't much) indicates that prior to 700 BC Judah was little more than a large, dry, pasture dominated by sheep and goats with perhaps a total population of 15-20,000, most of whom were nomads moving their herds around. Archaeological surveys show perhaps a dozen small settlements as opposed to the far more populous and wealthy north.

neilgodfrey

Yep. As minimilast implies, start with the archaelogical evidence. Then see where, when and how the different texts seem to best fit. Your above reconstruction is taking the stories in the texts as a narrative whole and treating them as primary evidence for the historical tales found in them. But comparisons of the different texts lead some to hypothesize (more than mere conjecture) rival schools, often contemporary behind the different texts. The claims of one to have "taken over" as the sole of dominant religion are arguably more propaganda re-writings of history than actual fact.

Neil

Gawen

Yes, I can see this. But questions remain...how, where and when is El supplanted by Yahweh? And how can Jews reconcile the discrepancies, let alone Christians?

No Robots

This was all explained long ago:

God, in order to show the singular grace bestowed upon Moses, says to him: "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob by the name of El Sadai (A. V. God Almighty); but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them" - for the better understanding of which passage I may remark that El Sadai, in Hebrew, signifies the God who suffices, in that He gives to every man that which suffices for him; and, although Sadai is often used by itself, to signify God, we cannot doubt that the word El (God) is everywhere understood. Furthermore, we must note that Jehovah is the only word found in Scripture with the meaning of the absolute essence of God, without reference to created things. The Jews maintain, for this reason, that this is, strictly speaking, the only name of God; that the rest of the words used are merely titles; and, in truth, the other names of God, whether they be substantives or adjectives, are merely attributive, and belong to Him, in so far as He is conceived of in relation to created things, or manifested through them. Thus El, or Eloah, signifies powerful, as is well known, and only applies to God in respect to His supremacy, as when we call Paul an apostle; the faculties of his power are set forth in an accompanying adjective, as El, great, awful, just, merciful, &c., or else all are understood at once by the use of El in the plural number, with a singular signification, an expression frequently adopted in Scripture.--Spinoza, TTP, chap. 13

Joan of Bark

According to Solomon in 2 Chronicles 2:5 (NIV)

So the Hebrews were still officially polytheistic (although monolatrous) as late as the time of Solomon (if he existed at all).

spin

And you're apparently incapable of understanding that eisegesis is bollocks.


spin

Minimalist

There is not a shred of evidence to the effect that the exodus ever happened. That sort of leaves "Moses" out of a job.

Ben C Smith

I think the position that verse is taking may actually be henotheism, not polytheism.

Ben.

Nero's Boot

THE SKY CAN BE CASTRATED???!

Dear Azathoth in Heaven, this changes EVERYTHING!!!

--:devil1: I'm sorry to tell you, but Chronos, in myth, was attacked by Zeus and castrated NB