Lucretius

Even if there was one, it still wouldn't prove Daves argument in ANY CASE

Johnny Skeptic

Yes indeed. Dave said that "[Egypt was] invaded easily by a foreign power."

Which foreign power, which year, and what was the outcome of the invasion?

I would sure like for Dave to tell us how he defines an "easy" invasion, and a "difficult" invasion. One man can easily invade a country if he wants to. All that he has to do is walk across the border and attack someone.

Dave has proposed that since Egypt was invaded, that is good evidence that the Ten Plagues occurred. Will he be willing to post concurring evidence from any historians, even fundie historians? I doubt it.

shirley knott

This is directly on a par with dave asserting a quantitiative difference between two theories with which he has admitted he does not have great familiarity.
That would typically be diagnostic of something ;-)

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott

gagundathar

I am just wondering, has afdave EVER posted anything correct about any subject? I have followed his antics on C&E and elsewhere on IIDB and have yet to find a single example of his presenting anything remotely resembling evidence to support any of his wild assertions. Am I missing something here?

Minimalist

Well, while we're waiting, let's review known Egyptian history. The Hyksos, either by invasion (less likely) or by stepping in to fill a power-vacuum when the 14th Dynasty collapsed (more likely) set up their 15th Dynasty around 1650 BC. They were thrown out by Ahmose I around 1 century later.

The next (or perhaps first) successful foreign invasion was the Nubian, or 25th Dynasty which invaded from the south....c 725 BC. That fairly well eliminates almost 1,000 years of Egyptian history from the "foreign invasion" scenario. The Sea People did try to invade around 1155 but were defeated.

Let us also remember that the Hyksos were Canaanites by origin. But they were the rulers....not slaves. Of course, if you later need to write an inspirational story of your 'god' helping you out of a tight spot, what better way than to have a bunch of 'slaves' be liberated by his miracles? Ahmose I was fighting to evict the Hyksos. If someone had said to him "let my people go" his response would have been "GO! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!"

shirley knott

Nope.
The problem appears to be that dave has no freaking idea what 'evidence' means.
His notions are certainly uncontaminated by actual factual evidence of any meaningful sort.

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott

gagundathar

I have made a note to show some of avdave's more .... hmmm how to put this... *interesting* posts to a psychiatrist friend of mine. I think she might find them enlightening. Or mayhaps just depressing.

The weirdness here is that in order for any of afdave's theories wildass surmises ideas to be consistent with reality virtually all of known physics has to be overturned. And yet, he apparently doesn't provide any other framework within which his new system can operate other than by magical fiat. If I didn't know better I'd think the fellow was just funning us all along.

Oh well.

Pappy Jack

I guess you could postulate that amongst the Asiatic-Semitic Hyksos there were some proto-Hebrews who were amongst survivors who fled East from Egypt after the defeats suffered in the Theban-led war of liberation. The story of this flight could easily be subject to hyperbole and a self-justifying rewriting of history (all too common a feature), and so turned into the high-drama of Exodus with all the added features that would make it so satisfying when recounted around the camp-fires.

Sitamun

Dave, could you please do me a favor and read ANYTHING by a well known Egyptologist about the end of the Middle Kingdom and the arrival of the Hyksos in Egypt. Even granting the ludicrous 300 year difference, the Egyptians didn't have chariots or horses that the military used until near the end of the hyksos rule and into the eighteenth dynasty.

What will it take for you to realize that the entire chronology of Egyptian history does not rely on Champollion's one translation alone. There are several examples of letters and diplomatic correspondence between rulers. There are several other measurements as well. There is not a specific year by year dating system because there are many Egyptian pecularities that the dating system has to try and account for. It is not a easy task, nor one that Egyptologists take lightly.

Really Dave, is it too much to ask that you do some research about what your talking about?


*wow pretty ranty for a first post*

Pappy Jack

Welcome aboard the rollercoaster, Sitamun.

Many people have tried to point out to Dave that the current understanding of the chrononology of Dynastic Egypt developed by decades of careful scholarship is not dependent solely on Champollion's work of nearly two centuries ago, but Dave doesn't seem to understand this or else doesn't want to understand it.

And rant all you want, Dave can have that effect.