French Prometheus

Worse actually. He was a false prophet according to Deuteronomy 13:1-5 and 18:20-22.

Djugashvillain

More relevant to BC&H rather than GRD. Moved.

JoeWallack

JW:
These are all misquotes. Give the original Hebrew and context. The one that is there though and you missed is Shaddup66 which says:

"And Rav Borat, speaking in Rebbe Yell's name said, "Have you heard of the new candy bar invented in honor of the 6 day war, the Allah Achkbar? It's fruit filled chocolate that turns to shit right after you bite into it."

James

bigmo got rinsed at

http://uiforum.uaeforum.org/showthre...?t=6289&page=3

James

my friend not all muslims interpret the words "it was made to appear" to mean another was crucified in jesus' place.

"Thus, the Qur'an categorically denies the story of the crucifixion of
Jesus. There exist, among Muslims, many FANCIFUL LEGENDS telling us
that at the last moment God substituted for Jesus a person closely
resembling him (according to some accounts, that person was Judas), who
was subsequently crucified in his place. However, none of these LEGENDS
finds the slightest support in the Qur'an or in authentic Traditions,
and the stories produced in this connection by the classical
commentators must be summarily rejected. They represent no more than
confused attempts at "harmonizing" the Qur'anic statement that Jesus
was not crucified with the graphic description, in the Gospels, of his
crucifixion. The story of the crucifixion as such has been succinctly
explained in the Qur'anic phrase wa-sakin shubbiha lahum, which I
render as "but it only appeared to them as if it had been so" -
implying that in the course of time, long after the time of Jesus, a
legend had somehow grown up (possibly under the then-powerful influence
of Mithraistic beliefs) to the effect that he had died on the cross in
order to atone for the "original sin" with which mankind is allegedly
burdened; and this legend became so firmly established among the
latter-day followers of Jesus that even his enemies, the Jews, began to
believe it - albeit in a derogatory sense (for crucifixion was, in
those times, a heinous form of death-penalty reserved for the lowest of
criminals). This, to my mind, is the only satisfactory explanation of
the phrase wa-lakin shubbiha lahum, the more so as the expression
shubbiha li is idiomatically synonymous with khuyyila li, "[a thing]
became a fancied image to me", i.e., "in my mind" - in other words,
"[it] seemed to me" (see Qamas, art. khayala, as well as Lane II, 833,
and IV, 1500). (p. 134, fn. 171, online source; capital and underlined
emphasis ours)

James

"akbar" and "akhbar" have no etymological connection, even though they are derived from the same root

premjan

akhbar means newspaper

Bigmo

Until I brought evidence here and the wahhabi took a vacation: :devil1:

http://uiforum.uaeforum.org/showthre...?t=6289&page=5

It was too much, all the condemnation was about Talmud and not one for the Torah, he had to concede but I bet he won't change his belief since it feels good believing everyone is going to hell except him and his lot. You know why he won't cahnge? You guessed it, hadith. Want to know why?

The Apostle of Allah said: "The Jews divided into seventy-one sects, and the Christians divided into seventy-two sects. My Ummah will divide into seventy-three different sects, all of which will be in the Fire except one: Those who are on the like of what I and my companions are on at this time". -Tirmidthi;

"By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this Ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Muslim, 153).

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
Narrated Abu Burda:

Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'" - Bukhari

"Every new-born child is born in a state of fitrah(monotheism). Then his parents make him a Jew, a Christian or a Magian, just as an animal is born intact. Do you observe any among them that are maimed (at birth)?" -Muslim

Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461: Narrated Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to yo!"

Thats why! :devil1:

BH

Some people have said that the Koran says that the Torah and Gospel are corrupted and its no longer a book of guidance. They say Muslims say so. Some Muslims even have said that anyone who still follows these scriptures is no longer a believer but a disbeliever and wuill go to hell. However when asked to provide their evidence from the Koran they are mute and confused. This is because what they say and the Koran are complete opposites. Lets look at the Koran and what it say:

Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 47)

But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) Law before them?- Therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) people of faith. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 43)

Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? But what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life? - And on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For God is not unmindful of what ye do. (Surah 2, Baqara, verse 85)

Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord...." (Surah 5, Al Ma'idah, verse 68)

If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 69)

Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (Surah 7, A'raf, verse 159)

Bigmo,

1. In my opinion the Prophet is not saying that the Gospel or Torah should be taken on par with the Quran. It says in 5:48 that the Quran has superceded both. The two were binding on believers (Jews and Christians) only during a respective period in history and have been replaced by the revelation to Prophet Muhammed.

2. When the Prophet criticizes the Jews and Christians for not following the Torah and Gospel he is simply pointing out the hypocrisy they have. Why would the Jews, who reject Muhammed's prophethood, come to him for judgement instead of their "Torah"? The point is that they really don't believe the Torah but want to simply get their way.

Somewhere in the Quran it does say that the Jews and Christians corrupted their scriptures over time. I'll see if I can find the locations for you.

Bigmo

God can never ordain people to follow something that is corrupted. Did the Koran tell the pagans to follow their religion? Did the koran tell the pagans to keep their pagan rituals? All the condemnation the Koran inflicted on the Jews and Christians was never about the Torah or Gospel. This idea that the Koran can order people to follow something corrupted was made by Sunni jurist so as to justify the ceation of an islamic state where Jews live by Torah, Christians by the Gosepl and Muslim live by their juristic opinions of the State clerics. Its a way to create an Islamic state. And since the Jews and Christians are not following their dogma, they can not apply it on them and want to say well they must abide by their scriptures even if its corrupted so as to ease the legal applications. Its all lies and politics. The Koran is clear, the Torah and Gosepl must be followed not to ease the legal application of a state, but because God supported and confirmed its authority. Muslims just want to find an excuse to label others as infidels, like the Jews and Christians did. The Koran responded to that:

And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to God and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but God will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment. 2.111-113

If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them 4.124

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . 2:62

And if you ask the Islamic sects about these everses they will tell you this was before Muhammad and after that the Torah and Gospel were abrogated and they are now infidels if they do not join the sects. Whats strange is they even believe most of the Koran is abrogated, so whats the point of following scriptures? What they want is people to follow THEM.