Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Classical · 01-09-2005, 10:54 AM

I came to this forum as an agnostic shortly after finishing my book about my deconversion. Although I will admit that my mind was thoroughly made up regarding the reasons for my deconversion, I also always try to leave my mind open to hear what others might say - both theists and atheists - to hear their reasoning, realizing that it may sway my opinion one way or the other a bit.

What I have found here has led me further into atheism.

Here is my challenge to all theists:

Give me one good reason why I or anyone would want to be a christian or have any type of religious faith.

All answers will be considered.

Jinto · 01-09-2005, 12:12 PM

If you don't, the church will kill you.

Well, it worked for the inquisition, anyway. :Cheeky:

Columbus · 01-09-2005, 12:24 PM

I really believe that Jesus' ethic, intelligently applied to the human situation, would result in the most wonderful world that we could imagine.

I believe that I would be more effective in conveying this belief to the most powerful society on the face of the planet (Christian America) if I could honestly say that "Jesus is my personal Saviour".

But I can't. I'm not a good liar.

If there is a God as described in the Bible, He must really hate me. I see the ethic Jesus taught as the best solution to all the horror of the human situation. And I see Christian culture as the reason why Jesus' ethic will never be implemented. The frustration this leaves me with is the biggest in my life. If God exists my life must provide endless amusement for Him. Then I'll die and either cease to exist or be sent to Hell or something. Maybe God created the whole universe for the amusement He gets from the impossible situation I find myself in. If He's God it didn't cost Him anything, and He gets the amusement. All I get is paying the freight.

I wish someone could convince me that my striving for a moral life isn't just farting in a hurricane. A belief in Jesus would solve that. Why didn't He leave something I could understand? Why not give me something now? Why does Jesus, if He is God, hate me so much? I would be so easy to convince. I want to believe. Jesus and I get along so well. He did and said something that I consider the cornerstone of my life. I've read the Bible. Why does it look to me like the docu-drama created by people impressed by Jesus' ethic, and not like history? I wouldn't even care if it was true or not, historically speaking, if His followers didn't care so much. Jesus wouldn't even have to convince me that He is God, just convince me that I am not on my own when I try to figure out how to be a moral human being. Convince me that it isn't a waste of time. Why do I believe that the human situation matters more than me getting more sex and getting more cool stuff? Is a queer agnostic trying to live a moral life the biggest fool of all? My efforts won't actually impact the world much as long as Christian culture disagrees with me about the value of Jesus' ethic. Why does Jesus deny me this belief if He wants the Message spread. Maybe He doesn't want me talking about it.

If anyone can give me an answer I would appreciate it.

Tom

MonCapitan2002 · 01-09-2005, 12:34 PM

The only one that I can think of is to fit in with the rest of society. The problem for me would be is that I cannot accept a belief that I think is patently untrue. To accept religious faith would require me to believe in everything I think is fundamentally untrue. I would rather be alone and true to myself than be among friends knowing that I am living a lie.

"To thine own self be true."

Alter · 01-09-2005, 01:40 PM

One good reason to have faith?

Because if you don't, how in the heck can something be both invisible AND pink?

seebs · 01-09-2005, 02:28 PM

Hmm. Well, a good reason would be "coming to believe that it's true".

For me, at least, religion provides me with a more consistent explanation of my religious experiences than the "there's nothing external involved" explanation does. It also allows unification of disparate observations and theories, and provides a good source of working hypotheses for difficult questions. So far, I don't appear to be doing badly by accepting these conclusions, so I keep doing it.

Philippe* · 01-09-2005, 02:40 PM

I don't know, what it comes to my mind is maybe some hope and a meaning to your life if you need of it, a man doesn't go very far without hope. We are limited beings more or less lost in this world and you have nothing to lose if death is oblivion. I think that is one of the main reason to explain why so many people have kinds of religious faith.

Philippe

Classical · 01-09-2005, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Columbus

Why do I believe that the human situation matters more than me getting more sex and getting more cool stuff? Is a queer agnostic trying to live a moral life the biggest fool of all? If anyone can give me an answer I would appreciate it.

The human situation does matter more than getting more sex and acquiring vast material possessions.

Further, I do not think it is foolish to try to lead a moral life. I'm happily partnered for over ten years and I believe in morality. You sound a bit lonely and confused, and I honestly don't think the jesus solution would do much good. It never did me any good. Just enjoy your life.

Chaupoline · 01-09-2005, 03:56 PM

You really have to wonder about a guy who will ask for one good reason to have religious faith on a atheistic website. It is like going to Syria and asking them for one good reason to respect the Israelis.

seebs · 01-09-2005, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaupoline

You really have to wonder about a guy who will ask for one good reason to have religious faith on a atheistic website. It is like going to Syria and asking them for one good reason to respect the Israelis.

Where better to get an answer you can trust to not just be wishful thinking?

01-09-2005, 10:54 AM	#1
Classical Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA Posts: 1,808	Give me one good reason to have religious faith I came to this forum as an agnostic shortly after finishing my book about my deconversion. Although I will admit that my mind was thoroughly made up regarding the reasons for my deconversion, I also always try to leave my mind open to hear what others might say - both theists and atheists - to hear their reasoning, realizing that it may sway my opinion one way or the other a bit. What I have found here has led me further into atheism. Here is my challenge to all theists: Give me one good reason why I or anyone would want to be a christian or have any type of religious faith. All answers will be considered.

01-09-2005, 12:24 PM	#3
Columbus Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: midwestern America Posts: 935	I wish I were a Christian Theist I really believe that Jesus' ethic, intelligently applied to the human situation, would result in the most wonderful world that we could imagine. I believe that I would be more effective in conveying this belief to the most powerful society on the face of the planet (Christian America) if I could honestly say that "Jesus is my personal Saviour". But I can't. I'm not a good liar. If there is a God as described in the Bible, He must really hate me. I see the ethic Jesus taught as the best solution to all the horror of the human situation. And I see Christian culture as the reason why Jesus' ethic will never be implemented. The frustration this leaves me with is the biggest in my life. If God exists my life must provide endless amusement for Him. Then I'll die and either cease to exist or be sent to Hell or something. Maybe God created the whole universe for the amusement He gets from the impossible situation I find myself in. If He's God it didn't cost Him anything, and He gets the amusement. All I get is paying the freight. I wish someone could convince me that my striving for a moral life isn't just farting in a hurricane. A belief in Jesus would solve that. Why didn't He leave something I could understand? Why not give me something now? Why does Jesus, if He is God, hate me so much? I would be so easy to convince. I want to believe. Jesus and I get along so well. He did and said something that I consider the cornerstone of my life. I've read the Bible. Why does it look to me like the docu-drama created by people impressed by Jesus' ethic, and not like history? I wouldn't even care if it was true or not, historically speaking, if His followers didn't care so much. Jesus wouldn't even have to convince me that He is God, just convince me that I am not on my own when I try to figure out how to be a moral human being. Convince me that it isn't a waste of time. Why do I believe that the human situation matters more than me getting more sex and getting more cool stuff? Is a queer agnostic trying to live a moral life the biggest fool of all? My efforts won't actually impact the world much as long as Christian culture disagrees with me about the value of Jesus' ethic. Why does Jesus deny me this belief if He wants the Message spread. Maybe He doesn't want me talking about it. If anyone can give me an answer I would appreciate it. Tom

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-09-2005, 12:12 PM	#2
Jinto Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 957	If you don't, the church will kill you. Well, it worked for the inquisition, anyway. :Cheeky:

01-09-2005, 12:34 PM	#4
MonCapitan2002 Contributor Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: --- Posts: 10,496	The only one that I can think of is to fit in with the rest of society. The problem for me would be is that I cannot accept a belief that I think is patently untrue. To accept religious faith would require me to believe in everything I think is fundamentally untrue. I would rather be alone and true to myself than be among friends knowing that I am living a lie. "To thine own self be true."

01-09-2005, 01:40 PM	#5
Alter Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Midwest Posts: 2,210	One good reason to have faith? Because if you don't, how in the heck can something be both invisible AND pink?

01-09-2005, 02:28 PM	#6
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	Hmm. Well, a good reason would be "coming to believe that it's true". For me, at least, religion provides me with a more consistent explanation of my religious experiences than the "there's nothing external involved" explanation does. It also allows unification of disparate observations and theories, and provides a good source of working hypotheses for difficult questions. So far, I don't appear to be doing badly by accepting these conclusions, so I keep doing it.

01-09-2005, 02:40 PM	#7
Philippe* Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: France Posts: 1,191	I don't know, what it comes to my mind is maybe some hope and a meaning to your life if you need of it, a man doesn't go very far without hope. We are limited beings more or less lost in this world and you have nothing to lose if death is oblivion. I think that is one of the main reason to explain why so many people have kinds of religious faith. Philippe

01-09-2005, 03:56 PM	#9
Chaupoline Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,441	You really have to wonder about a guy who will ask for one good reason to have religious faith on a atheistic website. It is like going to Syria and asking them for one good reason to respect the Israelis.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.