Originally Posted by sugarhitman

The "we" doesnt refer to his generation but believers as a group.

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

No it doesn't.

Paul makes it obvious that the "we" (ημεις οι ζωντες) are those who are still alive in his time, as he contrasts it with those who have already "fallen asleep". Paul doesn't include himself in the list of those who have fallen asleep as he believes he will be among those who will float up into the tropopause with a bunch of zombie saints and Jesus at Jesus' arrival.

Originally Posted by Logikal

Jesus supposedly talks about the end of the world and the coming of the Kingdom of God in all its glory, in one of his sermons. He then addresses his audience by saying that some of the people sitting there would "not taste death" (i.e. would not die) before it all happens.

Critics traditionally point to this as an example of a failed prophecy, since obviously Jesus' contemporaries all died 2000 years ago and he hasn't come back yet.

Apologists usually attempt to solve the problem by reinterpreting the meaning of Jesus "coming back". I won't delve into the details here since a google search would provide all the background details for those unfamiliar with the issue.

Here's my question:

Has anyone from the early days of Christianity ever dealt with this problem? Assuming the critics' claims are right, one could understand why no one saw the problem at first, during the first decades after Jesus' death, and during Paul's mission, since some of Jesus' contemporaries were alive still, and Paul assumed the end was near. But what about after that, after they all died? Did anyone see the problem and attempt to address it?

If not, then are we wrong today to think there is a problem at all? Could it be that the apologists and their seemingly acrobatic reinterpretations are correct, and since there is no problem, none of the early Christians felt the need to address it? Notice also the early scribes didn't feel the need to correct it either or to clarify this seemingly "difficult" passage.

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

...There is nothing in that chapter about the world seeing him when he goes to the father...but that the disciples would see this...not the world. You are confusing this with His Return....its not there bud.

Originally Posted by aa5874

Again, no-one can SEE Jesus in the NT AFTER he goes to his FATHER, he must FIRST return.

Up to now, up to today, no-one has seen Jesus since he supposedly went to his Father but in a "LITTLE WHILE" they will according to the story.

John 16.16.

Do you understand what is meant by the word "again"?

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

...Yes, I do..and "again" doesnt mean the world...Jesus said YOU shall see me again..where he resides with the Father...in heaven. God is the God of the living not the dead...believers after they die, before the return, will see him again in heaven.

Originally Posted by aa5874

No, you don't understand.

Please STATE where in the gospel of John that DEAD believers will see Jesus in heaven BEFORE the return.

There is no such passage.

Originally Posted by aa5874

No, you don't understand.

Please STATE where in the gospel of John that DEAD believers will see Jesus in heaven BEFORE the return.

There is no such passage.

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Oh you mean like this one: "But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

58And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

59And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.


King James Version (KJV)

So was it the world or the Apostle Stephen who saw Jesus in heaven before his return?

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

.... believers after they die, before the return, will see him again in heaven.

Originally Posted by aa5874

Please, Please!!!

In Acts of the Apostles, Stephan was NOT DEAD yet when he claimed he saw Jesus.

Please STATE where in the gospel of John that the DEAD will see Jesus in heaven BEFORE the return.