Savagemutt

This weekend, a conservative friend of mine (well, he self-describes as libertarian, but I'd call him a "paleo") was in town and we got to arguing about politics as usual. The topic of government-run health care came up. He laid out some claims about systems in other countries ("The average hospital in Britain is equivalent to the average American hospital in the 1930s" and he said that people in Europe and Canada hate their health care systems with their horrible waiting times and sub-par care).

I countered the latter argument by saying that I participated in an online forum (this 'un) where there were plenty of Europeans and Canadians and they all seemed to love their health care systems. He had an unassailable comeback ready for that one.

Are you ready for it?

Can you handle it?

Here it is...

You're all lying about your health care systems out of a sense of patriotism.

Finally, I have the truth! Finally, I can ignore all your arguments! None of you can be trusted because you love your country too much to allow any criticism of it!

I thought y'all might enjoy that.

xunzian

Now, granted most Europeans I've met were Germans because that is where I lived . . . but, I gotta say, if there is one thing I associate with modern Germans, it is rabid patriotism. Those guys, doin' all sorts of crazy patriotic things like, not displaying their flag and not knowing how to sing their national anthem.

It was like a timewarp to 1933 or something, I tell ya.

Metaphor

Oh, once again, I may go into irony overload shock An USian accusing other nationals of patriotism clouding judgment.

unrealist42

That is probably the one position that there is no argument against.
I mean, what can you say to someone who is that insane?

Rathpig

Savagemutt, has your friend realized that he too may be lying (to himself) about the health care system in the U.S.? Perhaps all people are patriotic liars and no one has decent health care?

Or perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

MarcelLionheart

I'd be surprised is half of Canadians can sing the national anthem. lol I have to say, our health system isn't perfect. But it doesn't kill people and when you need help, you get it. If you don't need it immediately, you don't get it immediately. What could be fairer than that, I do not know. I've some experience with the health care system here. When I didn't need to be seen immediately (I broke my pinky finger), I waited 4 hours. Not pleasant to wait from 10PM-2AM, but not unbearable and I didn't die. When I needed to be seen rather immediately (Steel fragment in the eye) I was within a doctor's care within twenty minutes. It suits me just fine and I'm hardly taxed into oblivion. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford the premium internet I'm using to be on this message board. Or the university education to compete with some of the minds here.

coloradoatheist

I think it's a lame reason and applies to both sides.

He would have a stronger argument if he said that people are more in favor of their system because the see it as free instead of paying for it.


Mike

99Percent

No libertarian will agree that the U.S. system of health care is perfect. In fact it is far from perfect but not for the reasons you think ("free market", etc), but because it is too much regulated and prescribed.

A universal health care system, like the one in Canada benefits in the short run from little regulation, precisely because its universal. But in the long run it will stagnate. The best solution as any libertarian will tell you is NO government intervention in any way, either regulatory or compulsatory.

Pragmatista

AFAIK in the US, 4 hours for a broken pinky would not be unusual. My four-year-old son broke his arm, and he was seen right away for triage when he got to the clinic (to see if he needed immediate help or not), but real physician care ultimately took at least a couple hours.

Metaphor

It's always refreshing to basically hear the truth from an economic conservative: we want to let corporations do whatever the hell they want.