Howard

If we don’t believe your God exists, then any “warning” in your holy book will be treated as just so much man-made hogwash. You may not want to discuss the existence of God here, but without it your warning is meaningless.

After being here as long as you have, and after being pummeled so severely in other threads, it’s hard to believe you keep posting such nonsense. Unless you get off on being a masochist for Allah.

Goathead

Um, hokowo, you do realise your quote says absolutly nothing about the signs themselves, and that they make no room for the man who would say "what bloody signs?".

And what makes islam any more relevant than xtianity or judaism? (or the jedis for that matter?)

Hamlet

I know that you don't want to answer the question. Because if you did answer, if you answered it honestly, you would reveal a shamefully low motive.

Honest questions and comments deserve honest responses. On the other hand, a masturbatory musing over the pains of Hell, being utterly contentious and pointlessly disputatious, is (or should be) below you.

But I am giving you what you probably want, which is a fight. Why else would you start a thread of this nature, unless you were either lonely or wanted to get a hard-on as you showed the damned atheists what their destiny has in store.

Avatar

And if the reply is "No, he didn't", what will the keepers say then? Because there haven't been ANY "clear signs". None. There have been a lot of natural events that ignorant people have claimed to have been "miracles", and there have been loads of "visions" that are claimed to be "miracles", but since they are all unverifiable and untestable, why should such claims be believed at all?

JPD

hokowo

very funny

well signs. mmm rain, plants, atoms, life, fission, constant universal constants,humans, bees, honey, shit, sperm, dogs,electrons, pn junction,water,ice, dog shit,birds,unbelievers,chocolates,cotton,satin,sil k,pissing,awareness, pain,happiness, sadness etc. etc.

from another translation

42.32 And of His portents are the ships, like banners on the sea;

42.33 If He will He calmeth the wind so that they keep still upon its surface - Lo! herein verily are signs for every steadfast grateful (heart).

30.20 And of His signs is this: He created you of dust, and behold you human beings, ranging widely!

30.21 And of His signs is this: He created for you helpmeets from yourselves that ye might find rest in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Lo! herein indeed are portents for folk who reflect.

30.22 And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Lo! herein indeed are portents for men of knowledge.

30.23 And of His signs is your slumber by night and by day, and your seeking of His bounty. Lo! herein indeed are portents for folk who heed.

30.24 And of His signs is this: He showeth you the lightning for a fear and for a hope, and sendeth down water from the sky, and thereby quickeneth the earth after her death. Lo! herein indeed are portents for folk who understand.

30.25 And of His signs is this: The heavens and the earth stand fast by His command, and afterward, when He calleth you, lo! from the earth ye will emerge.

21.30 Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?

21.31 And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them, and We have placed therein ravines as roads that haply they may find their way.

21.32 And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.

21.33 And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.


i suppose those are not good enough for you.

thats it in a way. suppose you could say this was not good enough for you and then try to debate it then. the verse also answers by saying the unbelievers will not believe these signs. so hey its catch 22 for you. you can debate it there when you meet the planner.

neverheless these are the sings and that is the warning, combined offcourse with the complete package deal of the guidnace that goes in it. but htat being anohter story.

anyway if i were to bring the talking mouse would you really believe it would you then rather try to find a explanation besides it being a power from god?
i think the latter you will endevour to try to explain it.

hokowo

how many clear prophesies would suffice for you?

is one enough?


or do you need 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000

or perhaps 2 or 3?

hokowo

appear, just like the toys in the santy story, no good deeds no toys, parent discretion. to the chold it always seems unfair

rjf

When the stars rearrange themselves to say "I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt obey Jerry Falwell or suffer eternal wrath," I will consider myself warned. I still won't obey, but I will take that as fair warning.

trendkill

That passage is not a fair warning. It is a story about a supposed fair warning being delivered to someone, somewhere. It is not the warning itself.

Leaving aside the question of what "signs" could constitute proof of the correctness of a warning--the Argument from Narrative is one of the things that annoys me most about theism. Storytelling does not prove anything.