show_no_mercy

The crucifixion was probably set one generation prior to the fall of the Temple when Mark created his narrative, explicitly telling the reader to pay attention:

Prior to the penning of this passage, there was no tradition of when Jesus had been executed, just some time in the past.

Ben C Smith

Jerome has the 42 years in his epistle to Hedibia (120):

In tantum autem amavit Hierusalem dominus ut fleret eam et plangeret et pendens in cruce loqueretur: Pater, ignosce eis, quod enim faciunt nesciunt. itaque impetravit quod petierat, multaque statim de Iudaeis milia crediderunt, et usque ad quadragesimum secundum annum datum est tempus paenitentiae.

But so much did the Lord love Jerusalem that he wept for it and beat his chest, and while hanging on the cross he said: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And thus he obtained what he had requested, and many thousands from the Jews came to faith, and a time of penitence was given until the forty-second year.

Ben.

maryhelena

The fact that no exact year is given, in the gospel storyline, for the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth, does leave wide open the possibility that there was no historical Jesus. If the mythicist position is upheld, then the ‘conflict’ over the dating for the gospel storyline can be viewed symbolically, or prophetically.

The fact that there are 40 years, from 30 CE, to the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 CE, should alert one to the possibility that a number symbolism is involved. i.e. Jesus of Nazareth is not only being fitted into OT prophecy - he is also being fitted into its number symbolism. In the case of the 40 year period - Luke has Jesus around 30 years of age in the 15th year of Tiberius - placing his birth around 1 BC. Thus the 40 year time period is part of Luke’ overall 70 year symbolic time period - running from 1 BC to 70 CE. (A symbolic time period Luke has used in 3:1 - the 70 years between the 15th year of Tiberius and the 40 BC rule of Lysanias of Abilene).

Did the gospel storyline of the crucifixion occur in 30 CE or 33 CE - both dates usually considered for the date of the crucifixion? With a mythological man and a system of number symbolism, its not a case of having to chose one or the other of these two dates. Both dates reflect an application of number symbolism.

The 30 CE date involves a number symbolism of 70 years from 1 BC. To 70 CE. (30 CE is also 70 years from 40 BC - the time when Herod the Great became, in Rome, King of the Jews.) Likewise, with the 33 CE date. This runs from the siege of Jerusalem in 37 CE by Herod the Great, with its slaughter of innocents - to 33 CE and the crucifixion of the gospel’ mythological Jesus.

One can go further with this number symbolism - by making an application of Daniel ch.9.

From the 20th year of Artaxerxes in 445 BC - when Jerusalem’ walls were rebuilt - to the siege of Jerusalem by Herod the Great in 37 BC - is 483 years - or 69 weeks of years. (Nehemiah ch.2, 6:15)

From the time when the gold and silver are sent to the Jerusalem temple, with Ezra, in the 7th year of Artaxerxes in 458/457 BC, to the crucifixion of the gospel Jesus in 33 CE - is 490 years - 70 weeks of years. (Ezra ch.7).

The writers of the gospel storyline did not leave out the date of the crucifixion of a historical Jesus of Nazareth. It is rather that they left in - put in - a number symbolism, a number symbolism that relates to a mythological and prophetic agenda.

aa5874

Your "number symbolism theory" is very weak. No-one knows when the so-called Jesus died.

maryhelena

"No-one knows when the so-called Jesus died".....because he never lived in the first place....

What we are dealing with in the gospel storyline are not details about a historical Jesus of Nazareth - the gospel storyline is dealing with a mythological or symbolic man - and is using number symbolism to highlight this agenda.

The 70 year number symbolism that I have used is taken directly from Luke 3:1 - the 70 years between the 40 BC rule of Lysanias of Abilene and the 15th year of Tiberius in 29 CE.....and Luke' statement that the gospel Jesus was about 30 years of age in the 15th year of Tiberius...nothing weak about it whatsoever............:constern01:

bacht

Would it be fair to say that apocalypticists were the most interested in studying numbers and their fulfillment in history? For instance would the average Pharisee have delved into these matters? The mindset seems the same as the Hal Lindsey crowd anticipating Armageddon.

aa5874

Well, as you have now admitted, your 70 year number symbolism is based on fiction.

Jesus did not exist. The author of Luke wrote fiction.

maryhelena

I suppose those interested in apocalyptic outcomes would read into prophecies and number symbolism such things.....However, number symbolism, in and of itself, is not necessarily about the cataclysmic end of the world.... I'm not interested in end of the world scenarios....

My interest in number symbolism is basically because I notice it in the gospel storyline - and in Josephus with his Essene prophets. Philo, who created the Essenes, i.e. the first person to mention them, was also very much interested in number symbolism.

I am an atheist - hence don't look for some sort of god given significance to how specific numbers are being viewed. Why some people view the numbers 7 or 70 as significant is not really of any special interest to me.

That events of historical interest, in connection with the Bible and Jewish history, are seen from the perspective of their fitting into certain repetitive time frames, indicates, to my mind, only the natural order of things - what goes around comes around.....i.e. repetitive cycles. From the orbits of the planets to the yearly earthly cycles - numbers are a way to record the cycles.

spamandham

Good lord. Are you now claiming it's impossible to analyze fiction, merely because it's fiction?

If the story really is fiction as you are so fond of saying, then what is illogical about the idea that the writer(s) of this fiction picked their dates for a reason rather than by throwing darts at a calendar?

arnoldo

Yeshua died at the same time the passover lamb was killed by the high priest in Jerusalem on the 14th of Nissan at 3:00 P.M.