Freethought & Rationalism Archive

juergen · 09-02-2008, 11:17 AM

Before ensoulment occurs, what would happen to the soul if the body is aborted?

Toto · 09-02-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juergen

Before ensoulment occurs, what would happen to the soul if the body is aborted?

Presumably either it does not yet exist, or it would float around until another body becomes available.

mountainman · 09-03-2008, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

Additionally, the Bible implies that one receives one's soul when God "breaths the breath of life into them," which of course only happens at birth.

I thought it happened so long as you continued to breath Malachi. And I have reason to think other people - in fact people in the fourth century - thought the same way. From Hilary of Poitiers De Synodis we learn that the sixth herecy of public opinion c.351 CE included the notion that:

Quote:

The substance of God is expanded and contracted

I wonder what this means?

Best wishes,

Pete

Huon · 09-03-2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

The substance of God is expanded and contracted

I wonder what this means?

Best wishes,

Pete

This is a part of a bunch of anathemas against the creed composed at Sirmium (347) by the Easterns to oppose Photinus.

Quote:

I. But those who say that the Son is sprung from things non-existent, or from another substance and not from God, and that there was a time or age when He was not, the holy Catholic Church regards as aliens.
II. If any man says that the Father and the Son are two Gods: let him be anathema.
III. And if any man says that God is one, but does not confess that Christ, God the Son of God, ministered to the Father in the creation of all things: let him be anathema.
IV. And if any man dares to say that the Unborn God, or a part of Him, was born of Mary: let him be anathema.
V. And if any man say that the Son born of Mary was, before born of Mary, Son only according to foreknowledge or predestination, and denies that He was born of the Father before the ages and was with God, and that all things were made through Him: let him be anathema.
VI. If any man says that the substance of God is expanded and contracted: let him be anathema.
VII. If any man says that the expanded substance of God makes the Son; or names Son His supposed expanded substance: let him be anathema.
VIII. If any man says that the Son of God is the internal or uttered Word of God: let him be anathema.
IX. If any man says that the man alone born of Mary is the Son: let him be anathema.
X. If any man though saying that God and Man was born of Mary, understands thereby the Unborn God: let him be anathema.
XI. If any man hearing The Word was made Flesh John 1:14 thinks that the Word was transformed into Flesh, or says that He suffered change in taking Flesh: let him be anathema.

The anathema #VI is (more or less) explained by anathema #VII :

VII. If any man says that the expanded substance of God makes the Son ...

Hilary of Poitiers tries to clarify the relation between the substance of God the Father and God the Son. [I am not interested in going further on this subject.]

And this has nothing to do with the immaterial soul of a fetus.

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09-02-2008, 11:17 AM	#11
juergen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: South America Posts: 1,856	Before ensoulment occurs, what would happen to the soul if the body is aborted?

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