Freethought & Rationalism Archive

TedM · 08-14-2005, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Following are my revised arguments regarding the 500 eyewitnesses:

The chief eyewitnesses were the 500 eyewitnesses and the disciples. Regarding the 500 eyewitnesses, 1 Corinthians 15:6 says “After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.�?

There is no indication that Jesus was recognized by anyone from a close distance. The texts mention that Jesus was not recognized on at least two other occasions. Mark 16:12 says “After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.�? Luke 24:13-16 say “And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs. And they talked together of all these things which had happened. And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.�? There are not any good reasons at all for anyone to conclude that 1 Corinthians 15:6 is any different from Mark 16:12 and Luke 24:13-16.
.......

In 1 Corinthians 15:6 there is no indication that Jesus said anything, making my arguments even better.

The claim of the 500 eyewitnesses in 1 Corinthians is not corroborated anywhere else in the New Testament. In addition, it is not corroborated anywhere in external records. In short, the evidence that we have is insufficient to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that there were 500 eyewitnesses.

Good job. Mary also didn't recognize Jesus in John 20. I have found those stories curious. Do they reflect a literal event, or do they reflect a gradual internal 'revelation', or could they be an indication that Jesus had barely survived the crucifixion? Why wouldn't they recognize him up close?

Anyway, the 500 is believed on faith, for sure.

ted

Johnny Skeptic · 08-15-2005, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedM

Good job.

Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedM

Mary also didn't recognize Jesus in John 20. I have found those stories curious. Do they reflect a literal event, or do they reflect a gradual internal 'revelation', or could they be an indication that Jesus had barely survived the crucifixion? Why wouldn't they recognize him up close?

Like many other skeptics, I do not believe that there were any women, any guards, or even an empty tomb. A dead giveaway that gives a good indication of lying or innocent but inaccurate revelations in the New Testament is the following:

Luke 24:33-34 say “And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.�? Here we have the disciples “and them that were with them�? believing that Jesus rose from the dead based solely upon the testimony of Simon, even though initially virtually no one thought that Jesus would rise from the dead. John adds credibility to my argument where he says that when Peter saw the empty tomb he went away confused, and when Mary saw the empty tomb she thought that the body had been moved. Clearly, the prevailing attitudes at that time as indicated by the texts themselves preclude any reasonable possibility that Luke 24:33-34 is factual.

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