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Old 10-27-2008, 01:43 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by aa5874 View Post
When 1 Timothy was written may be critical in determining when the position of "bishop" was used in the church.
That is not the question that hatsoff asked me. Therefore that is not the question that I was answering.

Ben.
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:04 PM   #22
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These are:

1. Epiphanius. Haer., xxvii, 6 (unavailable?)
2a. Irenaeus. Adv. haereses, III, iii, 3
2b. Eusebius. History of the Church 3.4.9; 3.15; 3.21; 3.34; 5.6; more?
3a. Liberian Catalogue.
3b. Liber Pontificalis. (available in Latin only)
4a. Optatus. ???
4b. Augustine. ???

Also:
5. Tertullian. The Prescription Against Heretics 3.v.iii.xxxii
6. Rufinus. (see below)
Others?


...[trimmed]...

Thoughts will be appreciated!
Dear hatsoff,

No matter how many citations you list for any information about christians in the epoch prior to Nicaea, the ultimate source and authority will always resolve itself to Eusebius, who tenders the only detailed literature and data on the planet for all these "christian authors" such as Epiphanius, Irenaeus, Tertullian and the shadowy Heggessipus, etc, to name a few. Augustine and Rufinus are very late.

The main supporter and promoter of the Peter tradition was the Roman Pope Damasius in the second half of the fourth century, and many of the traditions about Peter were nicely turned -- in Rome -- under the watchful tax-exempt eye of this militaristic christian pontifex maximus. He even renovated the catacombs, and ensured the posterity of the earlier christian Bishops, Saints and Bottlewashers, mentioned by the Constantinian Eusebius, by making sure they each received their own little crypts. It was a very good for the fourth century tourist trade. The fabricated relics of dead christian saints (nobody ever saw a live one except Eusebius!) could attract googling visitors from thousands of miles away. Today, 1443 years after Damasius established this tourist trade following Eusebius, it is still business as usual.

Best wishes,


Pete
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