Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Peter Kirby · 04-14-2005, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Thanks for the clarification, Peter.

That was one that I thought of (thanks for reminding me to add it to my list of DVD's to own) as well as O Brother, Where Art Thou? and Homer's Odyssey, Seven Samurai vs The Magnificent Seven and Clint Eastwood's "Man With No Name" movies and their samurai movie analogs.

I think we need more versions than one to actually qualify, though.

This won't be very helpful. To be synoptic (in the same sense as the synoptic Gospels), there need to be scenes that are the same and even vocabulary that is the same. "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" has almost nothing to do with the Odyssey in this sense, not to neglect the fact that they are in different languages, which makes doing things difficult.

Think something more like this: the Disney version of "Alice in Wonderland" and the books by Lewis Caroll. Definite copying of words and scenes.

best,
Peter Kirby

andrewcriddle · 04-14-2005, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.C.Carlson

Morton Smith, Tannaitic Parallels to the Gospels (JBLMS 6; Phila.: SBL, 1951), 142, suggested just this analog, but his pupil Jacob Neusner, "The Synoptic Problem in Rabbinic Literature: The Cases of the Mishna, Tosepta, Sipra, and Leviticus Rabba," JBL 105 (1986): 499-507, explicitly disagreed with that. (This was after their falling out, of course).

See Also Jacob Neusner 1993
'Are there really Tannaitic parallels to the Gospels? : a refutation of Morton Smith.'

It is IMO an interesting and informative read but goes well beyond the subject of the first half of the title into a general attack on Morton Smith, including a discussion of Neusner's views on the real author of 'Secret Mark'.

Andrew Criddle

Amaleq13 · 04-14-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kirby

This won't be very helpful.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't tracking as well as I thought.

In the movie world, it would more likely involve direct remakes rather than derivatives but I think the earlier point about plagarism laws will preclude many modern written examples.

Now that I think about it, would movies even work? Don't you need the literary comparisons? I'm not sure if even scripts would work.

Diogenes the Cynic · 04-14-2005, 03:10 PM

I wonder if the collective of certain popular fiction franchises might be comparable in some ways to the development of early Christian literature. I'm thinking particularly of all of the Star Wars and Star Trek material that is out there. Much of it overlaps or is dependent on predecessors. No doubt there are many inconsistencies and contradictions but this phenomenon might present itself with some parallels. Fan vernacular even recognizes a "canon" and distingushes between "canonical" and "noncanonical" material.

Roland · 04-14-2005, 05:53 PM

What about the two movies, "The Fall of the Roman Empire" (1964) and "Gladiator" (2000), both of which deal with the same basic story and the same basic characters, but with obvious differences between them as well?

In fact, couldn't any two movies based on the same historical event be somewhat similar to the gospels?

Vorkosigan · 04-14-2005, 07:45 PM

Possible comparisons...movies made from plays (Goodbye Girl, Casablanca). Movies made from Gospels.

Vorkosigan · 04-14-2005, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Warning: Darrenbacker's thesis is 18.65 MB - 354 pages

Stalled on all three tries so far. <sigh>

Peter Kirby · 04-14-2005, 08:00 PM

The idea here is to compare the words in the unique material to the words that are identical and shared. If there are not a large number of identical words, it is not going to provide a test run for Gentile's approach.

best,
Peter Kirby

Amaleq13 · 04-14-2005, 09:03 PM

I suspect that nothing sufficient similar can be found in modern texts.

What about generating something similar to the Gospels in a sort of double-blind study and applying the analysis to see if different authors/sources can be determined? If you had enough subjects, you could set it up according to various different theories of Gospel construction.

Does that make any sense at all?

Peter Kirby · 04-14-2005, 09:06 PM

Yes, it makes some sense, if you have college-going lab rats to spare.

best,
Peter Kirby

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04-14-2005, 03:10 PM	#44
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	I wonder if the collective of certain popular fiction franchises might be comparable in some ways to the development of early Christian literature. I'm thinking particularly of all of the Star Wars and Star Trek material that is out there. Much of it overlaps or is dependent on predecessors. No doubt there are many inconsistencies and contradictions but this phenomenon might present itself with some parallels. Fan vernacular even recognizes a "canon" and distingushes between "canonical" and "noncanonical" material.

04-14-2005, 05:53 PM	#45
Roland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California Posts: 748	What about the two movies, "The Fall of the Roman Empire" (1964) and "Gladiator" (2000), both of which deal with the same basic story and the same basic characters, but with obvious differences between them as well? In fact, couldn't any two movies based on the same historical event be somewhat similar to the gospels?

04-14-2005, 07:45 PM	#46
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Possible comparisons...movies made from plays (Goodbye Girl, Casablanca). Movies made from Gospels.

04-14-2005, 08:00 PM	#48
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	The idea here is to compare the words in the unique material to the words that are identical and shared. If there are not a large number of identical words, it is not going to provide a test run for Gentile's approach. best, Peter Kirby

04-14-2005, 09:03 PM	#49
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	I suspect that nothing sufficient similar can be found in modern texts. What about generating something similar to the Gospels in a sort of double-blind study and applying the analysis to see if different authors/sources can be determined? If you had enough subjects, you could set it up according to various different theories of Gospel construction. Does that make any sense at all?

04-14-2005, 09:06 PM	#50
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Yes, it makes some sense, if you have college-going lab rats to spare. best, Peter Kirby

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