Freethought & Rationalism Archive

spin · 03-08-2011, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWho

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Jesus Quintana: You ready to be fucked, man? I see you rolled your way into the semis. Dios mio, man. Liam and me, we're gonna fuck you up.
The Dude: Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

All the dumb quotes in the world are not going to create evidence for your death cult.

Well, this dumb quote is one of the few No Robots quotes that I actually found worthwhile.

mountainman · 03-08-2011, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWho

Repeat after me: I am not my religion, I am a human being.

The mediocre usually imagine that to let ourselves be guided by the books we admire robs our faculty of judgement of part of its independence. ‘What can it matter to you what Ruskin feels: feel for yourself.’ Such a view rests on a psychological error which will be discounted by all those who have accepted a spiritual discipline and feel thereby that their power of understanding and of feeling is infinitely enhanced, and their critical sense never paralysed…There is no better way of coming to be aware of what one feels oneself than by trying to recreate in oneself what a master has felt. In this profound effort it is our thought itself that we bring out into the light, together with his.--Marcel Proust

Who is the master? JRR Tolkien or Oded Golan?

AdamWho · 03-08-2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWho

Repeat after me: I am not my religion, I am a human being.

The mediocre usually imagine that to let ourselves be guided by the books we admire robs our faculty of judgement of part of its independence. ‘What can it matter to you what Ruskin feels: feel for yourself.’ Such a view rests on a psychological error which will be discounted by all those who have accepted a spiritual discipline and feel thereby that their power of understanding and of feeling is infinitely enhanced, and their critical sense never paralysed…There is no better way of coming to be aware of what one feels oneself than by trying to recreate in oneself what a master has felt. In this profound effort it is our thought itself that we bring out into the light, together with his.--Marcel Proust

1. You are not just being "guided by a book." You have internalized your religion so that criticisms of that religion are seen as attacks on your self worth, this is not health behavior. This is not what Proust is talking about.

2. So what, an author has an opinion. Do you find the opinions of this author infallible, such as being gay?

3. Like I said, all the quotes in the world are not going to create evidence for your death cult.

Repeat after me: I am not my religion, I am a human being.

No Robots · 03-08-2011, 08:27 AM

I'm advancing/defending my politics: Christian socialism.

spin · 03-08-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

I'm advancing/defending my politics: Christian socialism.

That's neither transparent, nor relevant (to BC&H), but certainly in tune with the state of this thread.

No Robots · 03-08-2011, 08:45 AM

Isn't the thread about the incoherence of Rightist Christianity? Isn't it then relevant to indicate the obvious alternative: Christian socialism?

spin · 03-08-2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Isn't the thread about the incoherence of Rightist Christianity? Isn't it then relevant to indicate the obvious alternative: Christian socialism?

That doesn't make it relevant to BC&H.

And what you mean by the terms "christian" and "socialism" will not be straightforward to the majority of christians or socialists.

And the thread in general? Perhaps the moderation is stretched over too much territory at the moment.

No Robots · 03-08-2011, 10:33 AM

^All qft.

PhilosopherJay · 03-08-2011, 12:02 PM

Hi Jane,

Yes, if the apocalypse and Kingdom of God was coming, then the character of Jesus would have been describing reality. However, we know that the Kingdom of God did not come and therefore we can say that the Jesus character was, to put it as gently as possible:

nutty as a fruitcake, off his rocker, crazy as a loon, bananas, potty, gaga, had a screw loose, had bats in the belfry, a few cards short of a full deck, three french fries short of a happy meal, his antenna didn't pick up all the channels, a few clowns short of a circus, his train of thought was still boarding at the station, knitting with one needle, wheel is turning but the hamster is dead, lights are on but nobodies at home, didn't have both oars in the water, a box of Cracker Jack with no prize, a few feathers short of a whole duck, skylight leaked a little, reading off an empty disk, mouth is in gear but brain is in neutral, had nothing between the stethoscopes, the cheese had slid off his cracker, all booster - no payload, and his little red choo-choo's gone chugging 'round the bend...

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jane H

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilosopherJay

Hi Doug,

Good point. Putting a "Good" Jesus against the evangelicals "Bad" Jesus is a losing proposition. Their ideas and behavior mimic the outrageous ideas and behavior of Jesus and his followers more than the Jesus-as-Socrates preachers.

Christianity teaches people to be like Jesus, but the Jesus character in the bible is insane, For example, here's a description of his 70 or so sayings from the Gospel of Mark:

1. Defends his actions (baptism, begging, casting out demons, eating with prostitutes and tax collectors) and the actions of his followers against numerous charges of breaking Jewish Laws. He does not acknowledge that his actions could be disturbing to others.
2. Attacks all Jewish authority figures. Priests, Pharisees and Scribes as hypocrites. Scribes “rob from the widows.”
3. Preaches self violence (If your eye offends, tear it out…)
4. Believes in unlimited power based on the will (volunteerism) (whatever you pray for you will receive). You can control God’s actions. If you forgive others, God will forgive you.
5. Apocalypse with wars and natural disasters coming soon before an eternal Kingdom of God
6. Followers and himself will be unbelievably rich in the Kingdom of God
7. Parables generally indicate the Jewish God has a special hatred for the Jewish people.
8. Calls for laying of hands on children (Pedophilia?) and being trusting like children (desire to return to imaginary idealized, conflictless childhood state)
9. Money-changers (bankers) are robbers.
10. Own followers are untrustworthy and his father, God, has ordained him as a sacrifice to save all mankind.

Christianity teaches one to be like Jesus, however the character of Jesus is paranoid and delusional. It teaches a metaphysical world view which is incompatible with a scientific and humanistic social outlook.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Jesus actions need to be interpreted with regard to the New Kingdom to come (I find myself in surprising agreement with Bart Ehrman on that, although in fundamental disagreement with him about the form it was supposed to take).

What Jesus was doing was announcing an updated way of “doing God”, and this is the framework within which his actions make perfect sense. With regard to your points:

1.The Torah is to become optional. Excessive attempts to gain God's approval through Torah obedience are misguided at best.
2.All these groups were attempting to prevent Jesus from introducing the New Covenant.
3.Hyperbole, with a message about the seriousness of the commitment required.
4.Hyperbole/we can hardly control God/forgiveness of others is a sine qua non of ones own forgiveness
5.Refers to the historical events leading up to the destruction of the Temple, and with it the core of the old way of “doing God”.
6.Being part of the resurrection is a Money Can't Buy sort of thing.
7.Not hatred for the Jewish people- but a need to stop seeing that racial distinction as the key descriptor of the people of God.
8.Rebirth, ability to see the world as it is with fresh eyes. Need to be able to adopt new ideas without an overwhelming gravity from the old.
9.The word used is 'lestes' who are politically motivated bandits (think N.Ireland's IRA protection racket here). The Temple action is broadly a prophecy of destruction on a system effectively rebelling against God.
10.The reality was the disciples had Mr Bean-like DNA/a necessary step for the New Kingdom to emerge.

It all works well within the meta-narrative of the need to introduce the new way ahead, which if Jesus was correct, is simply a statement of reality.

avi · 03-08-2011, 12:35 PM

Thank you Jay....Well done.

avi

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03-08-2011, 08:27 AM	#64
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	I'm advancing/defending my politics: Christian socialism.

03-08-2011, 08:45 AM	#66
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	Isn't the thread about the incoherence of Rightist Christianity? Isn't it then relevant to indicate the obvious alternative: Christian socialism?

03-08-2011, 10:33 AM	#68
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	^All qft.

03-08-2011, 12:35 PM	#70
avi Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Location: eastern North America Posts: 1,468	Thank you Jay....Well done. avi

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