judge

Well I suppose that depends on what one means by world.

In a previous discussion Amlodhi looked at the idea that world to the anciemts meant not merely space but time and space.

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John Kesler

You'll have to enlighten me. At the TWeb thread you referenced you say this:

Yet you say that "this" isn't the "word of God." By "this," I assume you mean the Bible, but perhaps you just mean specific sections. Please tell me how you can be a preterist yet not believe that the Bible (or parts thereof) is the word of God. How do you determine that the sections which teach preterism (per your interpretation) are the "word of God" parts?

Tubby Lardmore

More than once I've heard radio preachers bring up the example of Jonnie Erickson Todda. She was somewhere around 20, I think, when she became a quadriplegic. I believe the view that is attributed to her is that God caused (or at least allowed) her limbs to become useless so that she would have a memorable testimony. God wants to keep her that way, because she is useful to Him in that condition is how the thinking goes.

Psychologists would probably call that a case of using a religious belief as a coping mechanism.

judge

None of the bible is the word of God in the sense that god dictated none of it.

Men may have been inspired to greater or lesser degrees when wrting some parts, but this might happen a lot, not just in the bible.

The bible does not have to be the "word of god" for preterism to be true. The message in the bible can still be reliable.

But ultimately in "spiritual" matters one grows in confidence (or scepticism perhaps) as one goes along. We need to test what we think must or might be true about God and work from there.

Jagella

Thanks a lot for that information. It included a real gem:

Never were truer words ever spoken! If a person is crippled by anything, it is society’s stupid and cruel attitudes toward those who are deemed to be “inferior� or “unfit.� My troubles with my needing to use a wheelchair originate in these Neanderthal attitudes, and there’s no reason that I or anybody else who uses a wheelchair could not live a happy, full life. That is, there’s no reason except people’s behavior.

Yes—I hear the gasps of horror already.

I imagine that they thought it may have had a “faithosomatic� aspect. That is, I was only crippled by my own lack of faith. A faith healer one day asked me if I believed a Bible passage that spoke of miraculous healing. I replied that I believed it. He then retorted: “If you believe it, then get up out of that wheelchair!...You’re already healed…If you don’t start to believe it, then you’ll be in that wheelchair until the day you die!�

Jagella

Jagella

Although I often find Tadda to be rather embarrassing, it appears that I may be turning into a “Jonnie Erickson Tadda of atheism.� That is, I’m using my experiences as a wheelchair user to testify for people forsaking the Christian religion rather than converting to it.

See what I mean by embarrassing? Can you think of anything more stupid than to believe that some loving God that created Tadda took away the use of her lower extremities as some kind of a way to get people to convert to Christianity?

One more thing about Ms. Tadda before I go. Referring to the Shaivo execution, I recently saw Tadda quoted as saying that “disabled� people should not be killed because they can be converted to Christianity! I’ll sleep much sounder tonight knowing that these loving Christians don’t want me dead.

Jagella

Jackalope

I'll once again note that most of the people who claim that suffering serves a greater purpose are not those who are doing the suffering. The correct response to the next person who tells you that if you had faith, you'd get up out of your wheelchair is: Okay, I'll hit you over the head with my cane. If you have faith, it won't hurt. I use a similar argument with doctors who think that pain control should consist of "grit your teeth and bear it."

And yes, some people use religion as a way of coping with their disability. Because otherwise, they'd have to accept that sometimes bad things just happen for no reason at all. New Mobility had a survey up on their website last year that asked

Has your disability affected your religious beliefs?

• more religious
• has not affected my religious beliefs
• less religious
• made me an atheist

I unfortunately didn't go back and see what the final results were.

I can still walk some, so I've been tempted to get out of my wheelchair when some nutcase decides to try and "heal" me, just to mess with them. But on the whole, I'd rather they just not lay hands on me at all. They don't quite understand how offensive it is when they imply that if I just "got right with God" I'd get better.

Jagella, if you haven't found it yet, Wheelchairjunkie Forum is a useful place for folks like us.

nowiser

Well. That's your cue to lean forward in your chair and do a little 'laying on of hands' yourself. Preferably around the &*#^'s neck.

Jagella

Hi Jack:

It’s a real pleasure to meet one of my “own kind� here.

True. Whenever I hear some apologist sitting back in his plush armchair trying to reconcile a world full of tragedies with his “loving God,� and he uses the “free will defense�—my eyeballs shoot straight up into my head. If said apologist was being chased by some nut bent on taking his life, would the apologist shrug his shoulders and say: “He might kill me, but thank God he has the free will to do so!�

Let’s take it a step further: Why not I break that person’s arm or leg with the cane? I can then watch that Christian’s awesome faith heal that bone before our very eyes! It would shore up my faith, that’s for sure!

I’ve found that most mislabeled persons tend to be irreligious. My guess is that faith can be maintained if you’re not asking for much. If you pray asking for good weather for a church picnic, chances are that the weather will be good, and you can then praise God for a miraculous “answer� to your prayer. If you might be looking for a healing of a bad injury, then prayer is much less likely to “work.� Inevitably, doubt creeps in.

It makes much more sense to me if a person would “get better� first, and then he or she might “get right with God.� However, Christians need a way to escape the obvious impotence or faith and prayer. As a result, they will blame the person seeking the healing as not having “enough faith.� That way, Christians can go ahead and believe in their God—all evidence to the contrary.

Jagella

Jagella

Like I just explained to Jack, I’d break the “healer’s� leg with a cane, and then he could show me how the miracles of healing are done! :rolling:

Jagella