JoeWallack

Wars. Hist. What Is It Good For

JW:

CIRCUMSTANTIAL

1) Discovery

1 - No evidence for the TF before Eusebius

1) General silence - expectation that if the
TF existed it would have been used due to its importance
to Christianity.

2) Specific silence - http://vridar.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/josephus/

ca.140’s CE Justin Martyr


ca.170’s CE Theophilus of Antioch - uses Josephus

General reasons for Theophilus to be familiar with Josephus:

1) Potential source for areas of interest to Theophilus:

Josephus is the official Roman/Jewish historian for 1st century Israel.

Polemical need, arguing with Pagans and Christians, to be aware of Josephus

2) Literacy level of Theophilus:

Identified writings evidence that he was well read

3) Location of Theophilus:

Antioch had long been major city in the East and functioned as quasi capital of Eastern Roman empire at the time. Presumably it would have had libraries and copies of Josephus. Origen probably had Josephus at Caesarea not long after and relatively not far away.

4) Patristic neighborhood:

Theophilus' bookends, Justin and Irenaeus of Lyons (yes, "Lyons") may be/are familiar with Josephus respectively. Current and previous Fathers are additionally potential sources of information regarding Josephus.

5) Themes of Josephus attractive to the Fathers even without any mention of Christians.

Josephus chronicles in detail the Jewish willingness to fight Rome which brought on the destruction of the Temple.

Of course it goes without saying that we also have Fake Theophilus (surprise).

Now, for the final question here regarding Theophilus' knowledge of Josephus:

Was Theophilus' familiar with Antiquities of the Jews?

Everyone here would agree that Theophilus was familiar with Against Apion. Against Apion is a relatively short work and clearly refers to Antiquities of the Jews and identifies Josephus as the author at the start. Therefore, Theophilus was clearly aware of the existence of Antiquities of the Jews. Theophilus' awareness of the existence of Antiquities of the Jews and motivation to be familiar with it based on the general considerations above already make it likely that he was familiar with it. Note that in order to be "familiar" with Antiquities of the Jews Theophilus does not need to have or have access to a copy. He just needs to know someone who had.

Clark provides the following criteria for determining literary parallels:

Clark’s criteria for valid parallels

1. Similarity in content

2. Similarity in language

3. Literary form

4. Sequence

5. Structure

6. Theme

7. Disruption of the text

We have the following parallels between Theophilus' TO AUTOLYCUS and Antiquities of the Jews:

1. Similarity in content

Both quote large chunks of the Jewish Bible and Theophilus' specifically refers to Josephus as a related source:

Quote:

CHAP. XXIII.--PROPHETS MORE ANCIENT THAN GREEK WRITERS. So then let what has been said suffice for the testimony of the Phoenicians and Egyptians, and for the account of our chronology given by the writers Manetho the Egyptian, and Menander the Ephesian, and also Josephus, who wrote the Jewish war, which they waged with the Romans.

3. Literary form

Theophilus' style is defensive as he is building the Christian argument rather than attacking the Pagan one. Antiquities of the Jews is Josephus' building argument and Against Apion is his attacking one.


5. Structure

1 - Theophilus starts his detailed Defense by quoting the Jewish Bible as history for the 1st 7 days. Josephus starts his detailed Defense by quoting the Jewish Bible as history for the 1st 7 days.

2 - Both chronicle a Jewish timeline and compare it to the Greek timeline.

6. Theme

Theophilus' main theme is to demonstrate that the Christian understanding of God is superior to the Pagan understanding. Theophilus emphasizes the positive qualities of God which are a model for human behavior and contrasts to the negative qualities of the Pagan gods. Josephus also emphasizes how Moses writes about the positive qualities of God which are a model for human behavior.


7. Disruption of the text

1 - Both authors give editorial comments after the first 7 days of creation.

2 - Both identify the Hebrew word "Sabbath".

3 - Both invoke Moses early on as the author and give his editorial comments.

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

JoeWallack

Wars. Hist. What Is It Good For

JW:

CIRCUMSTANTIAL

1) Discovery

1 - No evidence for the TF before Eusebius

1) General silence - expectation that if the
TF existed it would have been used due to its importance
to Christianity.

2) Specific silence - http://vridar.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/josephus/

ca.140’s CE Justin Martyr

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.170’s CE Theophilus of Antioch - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

For all you Holy Rappers out there with big gold crosses putting your fingers together in a cross and spelling out "East Ghost", while Theophilus is East Ghost, here's what's happening on the other Coast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0WDb-xzks

Way out West (way out west)
The stories told (the stories told)
Bout some Jew boy
Tiny and bold (tiny and bold)
Writing tall (writing tall)
Tall in the saddle.

Yippe kai yeah, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yippe kai yo, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yee haw!

ca.180’s CE Irenaeus of Lyons (yes, "Lyons")

Fragment 32

Quote:

XXXII Josephus says, that when Moses had been brought up in the royal palaces, he was chosen as general against the Ethiopians; and having proved victorious, obtained in marriage the daughter of that king, since indeed, out of her affection for him, she delivered the city up to him.

Verses:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book II Chapter 10

Quote:

CHAPTER 10. HOW MOSES MADE WAR WITH THE ETHIOPIANS, 1. MOSES, therefore, when he was born, and brought up in the foregoing manner, and came to the age of maturity, made his virtue manifest to the Egyptians; and showed that he was born for the bringing them down, and raising the Israelites. And the occasion he laid hold of was this: - The Ethiopians, who are next neighbors to the Egyptians, made an inroad into their country, which they seized upon, and carried off the effects of the Egyptians, who, in their rage, fought against them, and revenged the affronts they had received from them; but being overcome in battle, some of them were slain, and the rest ran away in a shameful manner, and by that means saved themselves; whereupon the Ethiopians followed after them in the pursuit, and thinking that it would be a mark of cowardice if they did not subdue all Egypt, they went on to subdue the rest with greater vehemence; and when they had tasted the sweets of the country, they never left off the prosecution of the war: and as the nearest parts had not courage enough at first to fight with them, they proceeded as far as Memphis, and the sea itself, while not one of the cities was able to oppose them. The Egyptians, under this sad oppression, betook themselves to their oracles and prophecies; and when God had given them this counsel, to make use of Moses the Hebrew, and take his assistance, the king commanded his daughter to produce him, that he might be the general (22) of their army. Upon which, when she had made him swear he would do him no harm, she delivered him to the king, and supposed his assistance would be of great advantage to them. She withal reproached the priest, who, when they had before admonished the Egyptians to kill him, was not ashamed now to own their want of his help.

And so Irenaeus of Lyons (yes "Lyons") uses Antiquities of the Jews c. 180's, West Coast.

Certainly by this point Antiquities of the Jews is probably known by the Fathers in the East, West and Rome. Thus we have it on good authority that by this time an assumption that the average Father is familiar with Antiquities of the Jews is a righteous conclusion and the better question is why wouldn't a Father be familiar with it?

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

JoeWallack

Wars. Hist. What Is It Good For

JW:

CIRCUMSTANTIAL

1) Discovery

1 - No evidence for the TF before Eusebius

1) General silence - expectation that if the
TF existed it would have been used due to its importance
to Christianity.

2) Specific silence - http://vridar.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/josephus/

ca.140’s CE Justin Martyr

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.170’s CE Theophilus of Antioch - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

For all you Holy Rappers out there with big gold crosses putting your fingers together in a cross and spelling out "East Ghost", while Theophilus is East Ghost, here's what's happening on the other Coast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0WDb-xzks

Way out West (way out west)
The stories told (the stories told)
Bout some Jew boy
Tiny and bold (tiny and bold)
Writing tall (writing tall)
Tall in the saddle.
Herding flock with human brains
who act like cattle

Yippe kai yeah, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yippe kai yo, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yee haw!

ca.180’s CE Irenaeus of Lyons (yes, "Lyons") - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.165 CE Tatian

TATIAN'S ADDRESS TO THE GREEKS

Quote:

CHAP. XXXI.--THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE CHRISTIANS MORE ANCIENT THAN THAT OF THE GREEKS. But now it seems proper for me to demonstrate that our philosophy is older than the systems of the Greeks. Moses and Homer shall be our limits, each of them being of great antiquity; the one being the oldest of poets and historians, and the other the founder of all barbarian wisdom. Let us, then, institute a comparison between them; and we shall find that our doctrines are older, not only than those of the Greeks, but than the invention of letters. And I will not bring forward witnesses from among ourselves, but rather have recourse to Greeks. To do the former would be foolish, because it would not be allowed by you; but the other will surprise you, when, by contending against you with your own weapons, ... CHAP.XXXVI.--TESTIMONY OF THE CHALDEANS TO THE ANTIQUITY OF MOSES. But let Homer be not later than the Trojan war; let it be granted that he was contemporary with it, or even that he was in the army of Agamemnon, and, if any so please, that he lived before the invention of letters. The Moses before mentioned will be shown to have been many years older than the taking of Troy, and far more ancient than the building of Troy, or than Tros and Dardanus. To demonstrate this I will call in as witnesses the Chaldeans, the Phoenicians and the Egyptians. And what more need I say? For it behoves one who professes to persuade his hearers to make his narrative of events very concise. Berosus, a Babylonian, a priest of their god Belus, born in the time of Alexander, composed for Antiochus, the third after him, the history of the Chaldeans in three books; and, narrating the acts of the kings, he mentions one of them, Nabuchodonosor by name, who made war against the Phoenicians and the Jews,events which we know were announced by our prophets, and which happened much later than the age of Moses, seventy years before the Persian empire. But Berosus is a very trustworthy man, and of this Juba is a witness, who, writing concerning the Assyrians, says that he learned the history from Berosus: there are two books of his concerning the Assyrians.

Verses

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/t...us/apion1.html

Quote:

2. And now, in the first place, I cannot but greatly wonder at those men, who suppose that we must attend to none but Grecians, when we are inquiring about the most ancient facts, and must inform ourselves of their truth from them only, while we must not believe ourselves nor other men; for I am convinced that the very reverse is the truth of the case. I mean this, - if we will not be led by vain opinions, but will make inquiry after truth from facts themselves; for they will find that almost all which concerns the Greeks happened not long ago; nay, one may say, is of yesterday only. I speak of the building of their cities, the inventions of their arts, and the description of their laws; and as for their care about the writing down of their histories, it is very near the last thing they set about. However, they acknowledge themselves so far, that they were the Egyptians, the Chaldeans, and the Phoenicians (for I will not now reckon ourselves among them) that have preserved the memorials of the most ancient and most lasting traditions of mankind; for almost all these nations inhabit such countries as are least subject to destruction from the world about them; and these also have taken especial care to have nothing omitted of what was [remarkably] done among them; but their history was esteemed sacred, and put into public tables, as written by men of the greatest wisdom they had among them. But as for the place where the Grecians inhabit, ten thousand destructions have overtaken it, and blotted out the memory of former actions; so that they were ever beginning a new way of living, and supposed that every one of them was the origin of their new state. It was also late, and with difficulty, that they came to know the letters they now use; for those who would advance their use of these letters to the greatest antiquity pretend that they learned them from the Phoenicians and from Cadmus; yet is nobody able to demonstrate that they have any writing preserved from that time, neither in their temples, nor in any other public monuments. This appears, because the time when those lived who went to the Trojan war, so many years afterward, is in great doubt, and great inquiry is made, whether the Greeks used their letters at that time; and the most prevailing opinion, and that nearest the truth, is, that their present way of using those letters was unknown at that time. However, there is not any writing which the Greeks agree to he genuine among them ancienter than Homer's Poems, who must plainly he confessed later than the siege of Troy;

JW:
Note that the primary theme of Antiquities of the Jews/Against Apion is to demonstrate that Jewish culture precedes Greek culture while Tatian similarly has the same major theme. Tatian does not have the detailed matches to Josephus that other Fathers have so he clearly had other sources. But his Motive and Opportunity make it likely that he was familiar with Josephus, either directly with the text or indirectly through others.

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

JoeWallack

Wars. Hist. What Is It Good For

JW:

CIRCUMSTANTIAL

1) Discovery

1 - No evidence for the TF before Eusebius

1) General silence - expectation that if the
TF existed it would have been used due to its importance
to Christianity.

2) Specific silence - http://vridar.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/josephus/

ca.140’s CE Justin Martyr

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.165 CE Tatian

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.170’s CE Theophilus of Antioch - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

For all you Holy Rappers out there with big gold crosses putting your fingers together in a cross and spelling out "East Ghost", while Theophilus is East Ghost, here's what's happening on the other Coast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0WDb-xzks

Way out West (way out west)
The stories told (the stories told)
Bout some Jew boy
Tiny and bold (tiny and bold)
Writing tall (writing tall)
Tall in the saddle.
Herding flock with human brains
who act like cattle

Yippe kai yeah, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yippe kai yo, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yee haw!

ca.180’s CE Irenaeus of Lyons (yes, "Lyons") - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.190’s CE Clement of Alexandria

The Stromata, or Miscellanies Book I

Quote:

CHAPTER XXI -- THE JEWISH INSTITUTIONS AND LAWS OF FAR HIGHER ANTIQUITY THAN THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE GREEKS. On the plagiarizing of the dogmas of the philosophers from the Hebrews, we shall treat a little afterwards. But first, as due order demands, we must now speak of the epoch of Moses, by which the philosophy of the Hebrews will be demonstrated beyond all contradiction to be the most ancient of all wisdom. This has been discussed with accuracy by Tatian in his book To the Greeks, and by Cassian in the first book of his Exegetics. Nevertheless our commentary demands that we too should run over what has been said on the point. Apion, then, the grammarian, surnamed Pleistonices, in the fourth book of The Egyptian Histories, although of so hostile a disposition towards the Hebrews, being by race an Egyptian, as to compose a work against the Jews, when referring to Amosis king of the Egyptians, and his exploits, adduces, as a witness, Ptolemy of Mendes. ... Flavius Josephus the Jew, who composed the history of the Jews, computing the periods, says that from Moses to David were five hundred and eighty-five years; from David to the second year of Vespasian, a thousand one hundred and seventy-nine; then from that to the tenth year of Antoninus, seventy-seven. So that from Moses to the tenth year of Antoninus there are, in all, two thousand one hundred and thirty-three years.

JW:
Thus Clement of Alexandria is not only aware of Antiquities of the Jews but uses it c. 190s. Also note that Clement cites Tatian as his related first source here making it likely that Tatian was indeed familiar with Antiquities of the Jews.

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

JoeWallack

Wars. Hist. What Is It Good For

JW:

CIRCUMSTANTIAL

1) Discovery

1 - No evidence for the TF before Eusebius

1) General silence - expectation that if the
TF existed it would have been used due to its importance
to Christianity.

2) Specific silence - http://vridar.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/josephus/

ca.140’s CE Justin Martyr

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.165 CE Tatian

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.170’s CE Theophilus of Antioch - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

For all you Holy Rappers out there with big gold crosses putting your fingers together in a cross and spelling out "East Ghost", while Theophilus is East Ghost, here's what's happening on the other Coast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0WDb-xzks

Way out West (way out west)
The stories told (the stories told)
Bout some Jew boy
Tiny and bold (tiny and bold)
Writing tall (writing tall)
Tall in the saddle.
Herding flock with human brains
who act like cattle

Yippe kai yeah, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yippe kai yo, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yee haw!

ca.180’s CE Irenaeus of Lyons (yes, "Lyons") - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.190’s CE Clement of Alexandria - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.200’s CE Tertullian

APOLOGY

Quote:

CHAP. XIX. Their high antiquity, first of all, claims authority for these writings. With you, too, it is a kind of religion to demand belief on this very ground. Well, all the substances, all the materials, the origins, classes, contents of your most ancient writings, even most nations and cities illustrious in the records of the past and noted for their antiquity in books of annals,--the very forms of your letters, those revealers and custodiers of events, nay (I think I speak still within the mark), your very gods themselves, your very temples and oracles, and sacred rites, are less ancient than the work of a single prophet, in whom you have the thesaurus of the entire Jewish religion, and therefore too of ours. If you happen to have heard of a certain Moses, I speak first of him: he is as far back as the Argive Inachus; by nearly four hundred years--only seven less--he precedes Danaus, your most ancient name; while he antedates by a millennium the death of Priam. I might affirm, too, that he is five hundred years earlier than Homer, and have supporters of that view. The other prophets also, though of later date, are, even the most recent of them, as far back as the first of your philosophers, and legislators, and historians. It is not so much the difficulty of the subject, as its vastness, that stands in the way of a statement of the grounds on which these statements rest; the matter is not so arduous as it would be tedious. It would require the anxious study of many books, and the fingers busy reckoning. The histories of the most ancient nations, such as the Egyptians, the Chaldeans, the Phoenicians, would need to be ransacked; the men of these various nations who have information to give, would have to be called in as witnesses. Manetho the Egyptian, and Berosus the Chaldean, and Hieromus the Phoenician king of Tyre; their successors too, Ptolemy the Mendesian, and Demetrius Phalereus, and King Juba, and Apion, and Thallus, and their critic the Jew Josephus, the native vindicator of the ancient history of his people, who either authenticates or refutes the others. Also the Greek censors' lists must be compared, and the dates of events ascertained, that the chronological connections may be opened up, and thus the reckonings of the various annals be made to give forth light. We must go abroad into the histories and literature of all nations. And, in fact, we have already brought the proof in part before you, in giving those hints as to how it is to be effected. But it seems better to delay the full discussion of this, lest in our haste we do not sufficiently carry it out, or lest in its thorough handling we make too lengthened a digression.

JW:
We have the following reasons to think that Tertullian was familiar with Antiquities of the Jews:

1) The same General reasons that all the Fathers had.

2) He specifically makes use of the Jews more ancient than Greeks argument that is central to Josephus.

3) Based on the above he likely used Against Apion as a source.

4) He explicitly identifies Josephus as chronicling the ancientness of the Jews.

5) c. 200 he now has Fathers that quoted from Antiquities of the Jews (Irenaeus & Clement).

6) He has an increased amount of Fathers now who probably were familiar with Antiquities of the Jews.

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

JoeWallack

Wars. Hist. What Is It Good For

JW:

CIRCUMSTANTIAL

1) Discovery

1 - No evidence for the TF before Eusebius

1) General silence - expectation that if the
TF existed it would have been used due to its importance
to Christianity.

2) Specific silence - http://vridar.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/josephus/

ca.140’s CE Justin Martyr

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.165 CE Tatian

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.170’s CE Theophilus of Antioch - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

For all you Holy Rappers out there with big gold crosses putting your fingers together in a cross and spelling out "East Ghost", while Theophilus is East Ghost, here's what's happening on the other Coast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0WDb-xzks

Way out West (way out west)
The stories told (the stories told)
Bout some Jew boy
Tiny and bold (tiny and bold)
Writing tall (writing tall)
Tall in the saddle.
Herding flock with human brains
who act like cattle

Yippe kai yeah, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yippe kai yo, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yee haw!

ca.180’s CE Irenaeus of Lyons (yes, "Lyons") - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.190’s CE Clement of Alexandria - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.200’s CE Tertullian - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.200’s CE Minucius Felix

The Octavius of Minucius Felix

Quote:

CHAP. XXXIII.--ARGUMENT: THAT EVEN' IF GOD BE SAID TO HAVE NOTHING AVAILED THE JEWS, CERTAINLY THE WRITERS OF THE JEWISH ANNALS ARE THE MOST SUFFICIENT WITNESSES THAT THEY FORSOOK GOD BEFORE THEY WERE FORSAKEN BY HIM. "Neither let us flatter ourselves concerning our multitude. We seem many to ourselves, but to God we are very few. We distinguish peoples and nations; to God this whole world is one family. Kings only know all the matters of their kingdom by the ministrations of their servants: God has no need of information. We not only live in His eyes, but also in His bosom. But it is objected that it availed the Jews nothing that they themselves worshipped the one God with altars and temples, with the greatest superstition. You are guilty of ignorance if you are recalling later events while you are forgetful or unconscious of former ones. For they themselves also, as long as they worshipped our God--and He is the same God of all--with chastity, innocency, and religion, as long as they obeyed His wholesome precepts, from a few became innumerable, from poor became rich, from being servants became kings; a few overwhelmed many; unarmed men overwhelmed armed ones as they fled from them, following them up by God's command, and with the elements striving on their behalf. Carefully read over their Scriptures, or if you are better pleased with the Roman writings, inquire concerning the Jews in the books (to say nothing of ancient documents) of Flavius Josephus or Antoninus Julianus, and you shall know that by their wickedness they deserved this fortune, and that nothing happened which had not before been predicted to them, if they should persevere in their obstinacy. Therefore you will understand that they forsook before they were forsaken, and that they were not, as you impiously say, taken captive with their God, but they were given up by God as deserters from His discipline.

JW:
Based only on the above it's most likely that at a minimum this MF (Minucius Felix) is familiar with Wars as that's where Josephus lays out the mistakes of the Jews which led to the destruction of the Temple. However, based on the general reasons already given in this Thread for predecessor Fathers I think it likely that MF was familiar with all of Josephus.

The objective student should have noticed by now the relatively high % of invocations of the name Josephus in the Patristic writings to this point compared to extant writings. And why wouldn't a Father be interested in the official Jewish/Roman historian of the 1st century who blamed the Jews for the destruction of the Temple. I think it's safe to say that the Patristic knowledge of Josephus was something greater than that only evidenced by the extant.

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

JoeWallack

Wars. Hist. What Is It Good For

JW:

CIRCUMSTANTIAL

1) Discovery

1 - No evidence for the TF before Eusebius

1) General silence - expectation that if the
TF existed it would have been used due to its importance
to Christianity.

2) Specific silence - http://vridar.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/josephus/

ca.140’s CE Justin Martyr

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.165 CE Tatian

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.170’s CE Theophilus of Antioch - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

For all you Holy Rappers out there with big gold crosses putting your fingers together in a cross and spelling out "East Ghost", while Theophilus is East Ghost, here's what's happening on the other Coast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0WDb-xzks

Way out West (way out west)
The stories told (the stories told)
Bout some Jew boy
Tiny and bold (tiny and bold)
Writing tall (writing tall)
Tall in the saddle.
Herding flock with human brains
who act like cattle

Yippe kai yeah, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yippe kai yo, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yee haw!

ca.180’s CE Irenaeus of Lyons (yes, "Lyons") - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.190’s CE Clement of Alexandria - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.200’s CE Tertullian - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.200’s CE Minucius Felix - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.210’s CE Hippolytus

FRAGMENTS FROM COMMENTARIES ON VARIOUS BOOKS OF SCRIPTURE.

Quote:

ON JEREMIAH AND EZEKIEL. What were the dimensions, then, of the temple of Solomon? Its length was sixty cubits, and its breadth twenty. And it was not turned to the east, that the worshippers might not worship the rising sun, but the Lord of the sun. And let no one marvel if, when the Scripture gives the length at forty cubits, I have said sixty. For a little after it mentions the other twenty, in describing the holy of holies, which it also names Dabir. Thus the holy place was forty cubits, and the holy of holies other twenty. And Josephus says that the temple had two storeys, and that the whole height was one hundred and twenty cubits. For so also the book of Chronicles indicates, saying, "And Solomon began to build the house of God. In length its first measure was sixty cubits, and its breadth twenty cubits, and its height one hundred and twenty; and he overlaid it within with pure gold."

Compare to:

Antiquities of the Jews - Book VIII

Quote:

2. Now, therefore, the king laid the foundations of the temple very deep in the ground, and the materials were strong stones, and such as would resist the force of time; these were to unite themselves with the earth, and become a basis and a sure foundation for that superstructure which was to be erected over it; they were to be so strong, in order to sustain with ease those vast superstructures and precious ornaments, whose own weight was to be not less than the weight of those other high and heavy buildings which the king designed to be very ornamental and magnificent. They erected its entire body, quite up to the roof, of white stone; its height was sixty cubits, and its length was the same, and its breadth twenty. There was another building erected over it, equal to it in its measures; so that the entire altitude of the temple was a hundred and twenty cubits. Its front was to the east. As to the porch, they built it before the temple; its length was twenty cubits, and it was so ordered that it might agree with the breadth of the house; and it had twelve cubits in latitude, and its height was raised as high as a hundred and twenty cubits. He also built round about the temple thirty small rooms, which might include the whole temple, by their closeness one to another, and by their number and outward position round it. He also made passages through them, that they might come into on through another. Every one of these rooms had five cubits in breadth, (7) and the same in length, but in height twenty. Above these there were other rooms, and others above them, equal, both in their measures and number; so that these reached to a height equal to the lower part of the house; for the upper part had no buildings about it. The roof that was over the house was of cedar; and truly every one of these rooms had a roof of their own, that was not connected with the other rooms; but for the other parts, there was a covered roof common to them all, and built with very long beams, that passed through the rest, and rough the whole building, that so the middle walls, being strengthened by the same beams of timber, might be thereby made firmer: but as for that part of the roof that was under the beams, it was made of the same materials, and was all made smooth, and had ornaments proper for roofs, and plates of gold nailed upon them. And as he enclosed the walls with boards of cedar, so he fixed on them plates of gold, which had sculptures upon them; so that the whole temple shined, and dazzled the eyes of such as entered, by the splendor of the gold that was on every side of them,

JW:
Thus we have it on good authority that Hippolytus used Antiquities of the Jews

The objective student should have noticed by now the relatively high % of invocations of the name Josephus in the Patristic writings to this point compared to extant writings. And why wouldn't a Father be interested in the official Jewish/Roman historian of the 1st century who blamed the Jews for the destruction of the Temple. I think it's safe to say that the Patristic knowledge of Josephus was something greater than that only evidenced by the extant.

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

JoeWallack

Wars. Hist. What Is It Good For

JW:

CIRCUMSTANTIAL

1) Discovery

1 - No evidence for the TF before Eusebius

1) General silence - expectation that if the
TF existed it would have been used due to its importance
to Christianity.

2) Specific silence - http://vridar.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/josephus/

ca.140’s CE Justin Martyr

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.165 CE Tatian

General evidence indicates he probably was aware of Josephus and specifically Antiquities of the Jews.

ca.170’s CE Theophilus of Antioch - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

For all you Holy Rappers out there with big gold crosses putting your fingers together in a cross and spelling out "East Ghost", while Theophilus is East Ghost, here's what's happening on the other Coast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut0WDb-xzks

Way out West (way out west)
The stories told (the stories told)
Bout some Jew boy
Tiny and bold (tiny and bold)
Writing tall (writing tall)
Tall in the saddle.
Herding flock with human brains
who act like cattle

Yippe kai yeah, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yippe kai yo, mini sir Lyons bugger
Yee haw!

ca.180’s CE Irenaeus of Lyons (yes, "Lyons") - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.190’s CE Clement of Alexandria - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.200’s CE Tertullian - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.200’s CE Minucius Felix - probably used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.210’s CE Hippolytus - used Antiquities of the Jews

ca.220’s CE Sextus Julius Africanus

Africanus presents a similar detailed chronology of the Jews here:

III.—The Extant Fragments of the Five Books of the Chronography of Julius Africanus.

to Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews with the same polemic objective of arguing for the antiquity of the Jews vs. non-Jews.

While covering the same broad subjects though Africanus has contradictions to the details in Josephus indicating he had another source. The combination of the general reasons I previously gave for any Church father of this time to be familiar with Josephus and specifically the scope of subjects and broad agreement with Josephus make it likely that Africanus used Josephus.

The objective student should have noticed by now that Josephus has 3 main subjects:

1) The War with Rome culminating in the destruction of the Temple (Wars).

2) Detailed Chronology of the Jews (Antiquities).

3) Polemical presentation of the Antiquity of the Jews (Apion).

all of extreme interest to the Fathers. Going into the 3rd century we see the increasing use and reference to Josephus or at least Josephus' subject matter by the Fathers. As knowledge of Josephus builds here, so does the pressure to find Jesus in Josephus just as the Fathers find Jesus in the Jewish Bible. How long can this pressure build before being released..? Whoa, careful, the Fathers are about to blow!



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

JoeWallack

JW:
Webster's

Main Entry:

op·por·tu·ni·ty Listen to the pronunciation of opportunity

Pronunciation:

\ˌä-pər-ˈtü-nə-tē, -ˈtyü-\

Function:

noun

Inflected Form(s):

plural op·por·tu·ni·ties

Date:

14th century

1 : a favorable juncture of circumstances <the halt provided an opportunity for rest and refreshment>

2 : a good chance for advancement or progress

JW:
When there is no direct evidence for a crime, Motive and Opportunity can be sufficient grounds to demonstrate guilt.

Regarding Eusebius' possible involvement in the TF I think we all would agree that he would have been one of the relatively few of his time with the language skills to create the TF (talent). He also possessed the necessary equipment for the Italian Job (tools):

Pamphilus of Caesarea

and his tools and talent are recognized:

Constantine I and Christianity Early Christian Bibles

Regarding Eusebius' lack of credibility, we often discuss 3 reasons for:

1) Bias

2) Dishonesty

3) Incompetence

Here though, and with apologies to Pete, there could be a 4). Constantine forced/ordered Eusebius to manufacture the TF.

In any case Eusebius definitely had Motive and Opportunity to manufacture a Josephus with the TF. As we can see in this Thread, heading to Eusebius' time, the Fathers are increasingly interested in and using Josephus and the External force must have been building to find Jesus in Josephus. Whoa, stand back, the wind of the holy spirit is about to blow!


Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page