Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tyler Durden · 11-03-2003, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy
Interesting that sophist is defined as a persion of specious reasoning and also as a philosopher. Is there a connection?

Starboy

Aye, Plato chose several rival intellectuals of the day as the bumbling fools in his Dialogues in dramatic opposition of what he considered as a true philosopher, Socrates.

History teaches us thickwits like you never read history, and are too quick n' happy to jump to harebrained conclusions by virtue of the faintest amount of evidence.

Jesse · 11-03-2003, 11:05 AM

I would ask that all participants on this thread respect Hugo's request that the discussion be limited to the original topic, namely quantum mechanics textbooks. If you want to discuss philosophy of science, please start another thread.

Starboy · 11-03-2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Durden
Premise: "The brain and the hand are connected to understanding in a way that the mind will never understand."

Conclusion: The connection with the brain and the hand to the understanding is independent of the mind.

Perhaps this never occured to you but there are some things like playing an instrument that defy reason as the mind would see it. Yet the brain/hands know what to do and the mind can just listen and enjoy.

Starboy

Starboy · 11-03-2003, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesse
I would ask that all participants on this thread respect Hugo's request that the discussion be limited to the original topic, namely quantum mechanics textbooks. If you want to discuss philosophy of science, please start another thread.

Sorry about that. [off-topic comment deleted]

Starboy

Friar Bellows · 11-03-2003, 11:57 AM

Any books by Chris Isham and John Bell are worth reading. Bell, in particular, understood the foundational aspects of quantum theory better than anyone.

nermal · 11-04-2003, 08:31 AM

Dirac, Bell, and Bohm are all classics. I have a first edition Dirac myself.
If you don't have a real solid grasp of Linear Algebra, you may want to start with a good textbook in that. You will also need to know how to do Separation of Variables to solve a second order partial differential equation--well, you could just take the Schroedinger equation as written I suppose.

I believe the most common and "comprehensible" text on QM today is likely the Griffiths (David J.) "Introduction to Quantum Mechanics" He has a couple chapters on history as well.

An excellent read from the historical perspective is "The Infamous Boundary" by David Wick. Talks a little about the math (Wick is a mathematician) but deals extensively with the history, including Schroedinger's "trist with a trollop."

Also, if you become a textbook junkie you will want to get well acquainted with the Dover Publication Company. They sell all the classics, including Bohm and Dirac, for about 20 bucks, paperback.

Ed

Hugo Holbling · 11-04-2003, 08:40 AM

Thanks for the additional suggestions, everyone. I've already studied mathematics to the Masters level so i don't have a problem with it; i just wondered if there's a textbook around that includes all aspects of this subject in the one place.

Peter Soderqvist · 11-05-2003, 12:08 AM

TO STARBOY

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy
Hugo, I applaud your goal of actually knowing something about reality. I think though that if you want to provide "pure" grist for your philosophical mill, you should skip the philosophy of QM and concentrate on the theory itself. As a philosopher you might find Dirac�s book interesting �Principles of Quantum Mechanics�. It is full of math but not the applied kind, more of the type that a philosopher might be able to relate to. For pure physical understanding you can�t beat Feynman. His book �QED� is a good example of the physicist�s physical understanding of things. Also if you have access to a kiddy physics lab you might want to actually lay hands on reality and play with the demonstration experiments. The brain and the hand are connected to understanding in a way that the mind will never understand.

Starboy

Soderqvist1: To read QED by Feynman, and its application in the physics lab will give us a deeper understanding, than the book alone can give. Since apprenticeship can transmit through thalamic and sub-cortical regions information to cerebral cortex, that this cortex alone cannot understand, therefore; the more nerves involved, the deeper is the understanding!

Peter Soderqvist · 11-05-2003, 05:04 AM

HUGO HOLBLING

Quote:

Originally posted by Hugo Holbling
Perhaps some of you in this forum can help me? I'm looking for a textbook on the quantum theory that includes the history of the subject and - hopefully - some consideration of the philosophical aspects too. Thus far i've been unable to find anything that fits the bill. I already have D'Agostino's history and some epistemological papers, but what i'm really after would include both with the mathematics and other areas. It doesn't matter how deep the textbook is as i can follow the subject well enough. I'm especially interested in the turn of the twentieth century work and its development.

Can anyone help or offer some suggestions?

Soderqvist1: In Search of Schrodinger 's Cat: Quantum Physics and Reality by John Gribbin is the most famous book about Quantum mechanics' s philosophical aspects! David Deutsch's book; The Fabric of Reality, alternatively Julian Brown's book, Quest For the Quantum computer, minds Machines, and The Multiverse! And Amit Goswami' s Book, The self-Aware Universe, how consciousness creates the Material world! These books give you a basic understanding in the competition between various Quantum mechanical interpretations!

Amazon.com!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...427676-5226412

Rusting Car Bumper · 11-05-2003, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hugo Holbling
Perhaps some of you in this forum can help me? I'm looking for a textbook on the quantum theory that includes the history of the subject and - hopefully - some consideration of the philosophical aspects too. Thus far i've been unable to find anything that fits the bill. I already have D'Agostino's history and some epistemological papers, but what i'm really after would include both with the mathematics and other areas. It doesn't matter how deep the textbook is as i can follow the subject well enough. I'm especially interested in the turn of the twentieth century work and its development.

Can anyone help or offer some suggestions?

Hugo,

If you are looking for a book that is truly a QM textbook that has these other requirements I can say that I haven't seen one that has all of these characteristics.

People are given you other suggestions about various aspects but no one book covers it all.

I frankly think a lof of the philosophical discussions are hooey. Most QM effects dissappear from our senses as the number of members involved gets large and this invalidates many of the arm chair philosophical conclusions. That is a different thread however.

I've got a lot of QM textbooks and I think this is the best one.
Understaning Quantum Physics by Morrison

There are a lot of reasons to recommend this book over other more "classic" works.

DC

11-04-2003, 08:40 AM	#27
Hugo Holbling Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Self-banned in 2005 Posts: 1,344	Still more thanks... Thanks for the additional suggestions, everyone. I've already studied mathematics to the Masters level so i don't have a problem with it; i just wondered if there's a textbook around that includes all aspects of this subject in the one place.

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11-03-2003, 11:05 AM	#22
Jesse Moderator - Science Discussions Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Providence, RI, USA Posts: 9,908	I would ask that all participants on this thread respect Hugo's request that the discussion be limited to the original topic, namely quantum mechanics textbooks. If you want to discuss philosophy of science, please start another thread.

11-03-2003, 11:57 AM	#25
Friar Bellows Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: arse-end of the world Posts: 2,305	Any books by Chris Isham and John Bell are worth reading. Bell, in particular, understood the foundational aspects of quantum theory better than anyone.

11-04-2003, 08:31 AM	#26
nermal Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,969	Dirac, Bell, and Bohm are all classics. I have a first edition Dirac myself. If you don't have a real solid grasp of Linear Algebra, you may want to start with a good textbook in that. You will also need to know how to do Separation of Variables to solve a second order partial differential equation--well, you could just take the Schroedinger equation as written I suppose. I believe the most common and "comprehensible" text on QM today is likely the Griffiths (David J.) "Introduction to Quantum Mechanics" He has a couple chapters on history as well. An excellent read from the historical perspective is "The Infamous Boundary" by David Wick. Talks a little about the math (Wick is a mathematician) but deals extensively with the history, including Schroedinger's "trist with a trollop." Also, if you become a textbook junkie you will want to get well acquainted with the Dover Publication Company. They sell all the classics, including Bohm and Dirac, for about 20 bucks, paperback. Ed

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