Spanky

Of course they fear the truth for the truth will set them free. It is kind of like pointing out to them the difference between bible god old testament style and bible god new testament style. The murderous, jealous, immature and often human like god (far from his/her/its depicted perfection) of the old testament is the antithesis of Jesus and his father in the new testament. How could anyone want to be assosciated with a god like that is beyond me? I have better moral standards than that god!!!!!!
So, open up and answer the questions. Once you do you are well on your way!

erimir

You flatter yourself. A bit too much, I think.

Prove it. Explain exactly how whether this "premise" is true is relevant to whether or not you can answer the question.

I said they depict him as a peaceful figure, not as a pacifist. No one claimed that Jesus was a pacifist. If you want to refer to the one time I said something almost like that, I said that some of the things Jesus said COULD be interpreted as pacifistic, which is a far and away from calling him a pacifist.

A major difference being that a peaceful figure might not disapprove of self-defense, and a pacifist probably would.

It doesn't need to be. The question is valid. Until you prove that the question's validity rests on the truth of the "premise", there is no reason for me to bother.

Rev Prez

Nope, just stating the facts.

The OP argues that Jesus is a pacifist because Christians present him that way. I do not accept these first or second order premises.

Where is that distinction between peaceful and pacifist in the OP? And if you draw a distinction such that peaceful is something other than pacifistic, then where's the inherent inconsistency between backing a war effort and Jesus' teachings (as popularly presented if you like).

In that case, show me an inconsistency.

Rev Prez

Rev Prez

What unjustified war are you talking about? And where does Christ prohibit preemption?

Who's advocating that?

Or that?

Rev Prez

Rev Prez

Intellectually dishoenst is swapping out "generally" for "all," and then ignoring the failure of the OP to distinguish some Christians from others with an appropriate adjective. If anything, by inserting "generally" I made defending the OP an easier task for you.

Rev Prez

sodium

Emphasis mine.

Matthew 5:38
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
5:39
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
5:40
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
5:41
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

26:51
And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
26:52
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

erimir

Uh huh... You just tell yourself that.

It does not.

It says nothing about pacifism. I do not see the word "pacifist" anywhere in the OP.

He quotes MLK saying that Jesus would avoid war. And he suggests that Jesus would not support the war in Iraq. And he says that Jesus would not act like a drill seargent. You're reading far too much into the OP.

Well, whoop-de-doo. Explain how this is relevant to whether the question, and the question alone, is valid.

The OP didn't use the words peaceful or pacifist. I already listed the things the OP says about Jesus. I don't think he needs to make that distinction. The point is that he suggest he would not support the war in Iraq, and being a pacifist is not necessary for Jesus to not support the war in Iraq.

Because, for one, this is about a specific war effort, not any war effort. For another, there's a middle ground between being a pacifist and being in support of war. Jesus might not be a pacifist and still not support the war.

Rev Prez

And admonishment of revenge...

A foundational principle in the laws of warfare...

And admonishment of lawlessness...

Rev Prez

Loren Pechtel

What's this doing in PD?? Off to GRD!

wildernesse

This would be a better question if you asked: why don't these Christians answer these questions? I'm sure there are plenty of Christians who are willing to tell you how they'd answer this question.

I'm always amazed that when some people come to IIDB and make statements like "deep down, atheists know there is a God" they are told how offensive it can be to proclaim what other people feel or know--but often "deep down, Christians. . ." comments are sagely nodded at.

Anyway, I don't think that "would Jesus bomb Iraq?" is the best question in the first place--a better question for Christians to answer would be "Based on Jesus's teachings, do you support the war in Iraq?" Which for me boils down to whether supporting the war in Iraq is loving God and my neighbor with all that I am. I don't think that a lot of what is and has gone on in Iraq is loving our neighbor with all that we are. I think there are often better ways than war to defend the defenseless or stand up to injustice--but sometimes there aren't. But, this is a pretty complex question to answer--because I'm not sure what should/could be done.