Mickie

How on earth can you believe in an invisable person who will take care of everyone when you die. I mean really, have you ever taken a step back and listened to it? I can understand it with a kid and Santa but adults? I just don't get it at all.

Yahzi

Kudos for a good start.

What other kind of explanation is there? If it's not rational, its not an explanation at all. If it's not scientific, that just means it can't be detected by empirical means or isn't consistent. In which case how can you even be sure there is something there to explain?

The human brain is the most incredible object we have ever seen. Not only is it billions upon billions of cells cooperating with each other, it has billions upon billions of connections and interactions, and it manages to produce consciousness and the experience of thinking. How inert matter can give rise to what we consider life, how electrochemical reactions can create this sense of self, is a staggering wonder.

Reducing it to magic soul-juice does not ehance the amazement, it diminishes it.

Read "Night" by Ellie Weisel.

I have a hard time understanding how people can look at history and think this vaudville show is being arranged by any competent director.

If we can't see or test for it, then how do we distinguish it from the literally infinite number of propositions we can't see or test for? It's not that we old folks are blind to the possibilities; we've just noticed that things you can't distinguish from fantasy are, in fact, indistinguishable from fantasy. And we're tired of wasting effort on them; we want to put our energies into things that will make a difference.

Evolution has primed you to try out stupid things, just on the off chance they pay off. That's your job, as a young person - and it's a necessary job. But when you no longer have infinite time and energy ahead of you, then you'll want to only bet on the numbers that are actually on the roulette wheel.

Helo

I HATED that book, we were force-fed it in English. I hated almost everything we read in English because we had to analyze it to death so it lost all entertainment value.

I understand that not all atheists see the world as a cold, dead place. And that its somewhat of a stereotype that atheists are cycnical. It just seems like someboddy telling a young child that there is no Santa (Allthough I find the very idea of Santa rather asanine). Yes you get truth out of it and the world becomes a much clearer place, but you get that at the expense of the child's wonder about "Could it actually be true?"

Take the Northern Lights. Now we all know that the aurora borealis is basically a stream of particles reacting with the Earth's magnetic field. But to me it seems to kind of...kill some of the wonder to know that. "Oh...its...just particles."

reddhedd

Read this, and other essays on the IIDB home...click family, then parents corner for this and others.
http://www.atheistalliance.org/famil...y-mcgowan2.php

Helo, READ. TALK. THINK.

Never shut off your mind, or bar a path from further mental investigation. Check it all out. There is nothing I can't learn about, and the more I learn about everything, the more amazing it all is. So much more wondrous than when I was a theist.
So, stay here, ask questions, and keep an open mind. You'll see the wonder we have, and that yours isn't a patch on it.


(Mods, please fix the link if I screwed it up! TYVM, Redd)

Gawen

And mountains are just dirt and rock. And waterfalls are just water falling off dirt and rock. And blue streams are just on top of dirt and rock and between dirt and rock. Knowing this is all dirt, rock and plain 'ole water doesn't make it less beautiful.

Alethias

Everyone's experience of the world is unique, which is part of what makes life fun. Somehow you seem to think that a scientific understanding takes the beauty away and for me that is far from the truth. I can see beauty in the appearance of the Aurora Borealis, I can see beauty in the process of how it's produced, I can see beauty in showing it to my son and seeing his expression of wonder at seeing it, and beauty in explaining it to him, and that's just the beginning.

I'm probably a strong atheist--i'm personally convinced no gods exist even though i can't prove it an absolute fact to everyone-- and my atheism hasn't diminished my sense of wonder in the universe. It's done the exact opposite. As a christian, the ultimate answer for any explanation ends up being goddidit, or at least that was the way it was for me. Now, I take joy in the process of learning. I'm happy there is no ultimate responsibility in any particular god. This sets me free to explore and learn.

You made an interesting comment, that you see Santa Clause as asinine. I agree, but I also see god as asinine. Do I go telling that to all the christians in my life? Nope. Just as I don't see it as my role in life to wreck a childs joy in santa, so also do I not see it as needed to wreck a christians joy in their god. But that doesn't make my Naturalism and Humanism any less rewarding or fulfilling.

I hope you can at least see the potential for joy in a non-god-based belief system through my words.

SoT

Bartender

When I first made a rainbow with as water hose it made me realise the rainbows occur naturally and not because of some covenant with a god. It was an incredible moment. (I think I was about 6 or 7 at the time) I agree though, it doesn't take away from the simple beauty of a rainbow stretching across the sky.....

ELECTROGOD

It all depends on how close you look at things.
The more you "look" at thing and learn about them the more sense they start to make (i.e. there are rational explanations). This process also does away with notions of supernatural beings making things happen...which is a view you can get when looking at things from a distance.
Real knowledge makes all the difference in the world.

That's just your preconception which you were probably brought up with. It sounds like you haven't been exposed to much of a different way of thinking yet.

Bartender

Excellent post. I agree whole heartedly.....

FatherMithras

You have a pretty big misconception about atheists. There's no truth at all to the stereotype of us being cold and cynical. We're people live everyone else and we actually tend to do things like have more successful marriages (which seems to show me we love in a more healthy way). Yes telling a kid santa isn't real can take away his wonder, but does that mean you should leave him his whole life with an idea that's obviously foolish and made up? There's an amazement and wonder to the universe that stems from it's purely scientific reality. I tend to have the equivalent of a "religious experience" of wonder and amazement when I contemplate the immensity, complexity, and wonder of the universe's principles.


You're saying it can't just be particles and be beautiful? Because it's beautiful it has to have some kind of mystical explanation and connotation? I understand the desire to believe that, as I have it too (I'm also rather young, 20). But the desire for something to be that way doesn't make it true. And the truth is more important.