Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Duvduv · 07-08-2012, 01:32 PM

It's kind of funny how theories can come from left, right and center from who-knows-where, but when someone asserts simply that the person Jesus son of Mary and Joseph refers back to Yeshu son of Miriam and Joseph Pandera of the Talmud, arms flay all over, "No, it can't be! The Talmud? Heaven help us! Everyone knows the latest theory under the microscope is that Jesus was the son of Mary Queen of Scots and Joseph Conrad!!"

Littlejohn · 07-08-2012, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Herodian Messiah (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Quote:

In January of 2012, Joseph Raymond gave an on-camera interview in Los Angeles with Karga Seven Pictures regarding theories contained in Herodian Messiah for a documentary on the Discovery Channel called "Jesus Conspiracies". I[t?] appeared in episodes 1 and 3 of the series.
.

Google books

www.jjraymond.com/ - his web site has excerpts

James Tabor has a favorable mention here

but otherwise the book has been ignored by the scholarly community.

eta: Jesus onspiracies

video at http://dsc.discovery.com/video-topic...milarities.htm
.

Thank you!

"..the book has been ignored by the scholarly community..."

Even the books written by Luigi Cascioli were ignored by the scholarly community. And they are not alone! ..

The same fate has befallen the works of Tony Busby (certainly much more credible than the 'avalanche' of erudite texts that every year see they the 'light' in all parts of the world, which no even remotely they approximate to the historical truth, despite the honest efforts their authors).

Abelard Reuchlin, with his book 'The true autorship of the New Testament', he went to meet at a fate not less negative of the two authors mentioned above.

None of these authors was able to bring out the historical truth by the dense 'fogs' of the New Testament, which, in the intention of the 'founding fathers' (of catho-christianity, of course), had to remain impenetrable forever! .. However, in all of the works of these authors there are elements SURELY historical, which, if properly analyzed by the scholarly community, could have help to throw a flash of light on the hard work of exegesis ....

Greetings

Littlejohn S

.

Littlejohn · 07-09-2012, 12:20 AM

Quote:

...However, in all of the works of these authors there are elements SURELY historical, which, if properly analyzed by the scholarly community, could have help to throw a flash of light on the hard work of exegesis ....
.

As just one example, Reuchlin (a pseudonym) said that the true author of the Gospels was Josephus. Some Vatican's 'purpled' of the medieval centuries, have said that Josephus was a converted 'Christian'.

There is no doubt that these 'voices' and the beliefs expressed by Abelard Reuchlin, have the same matrix, and that Josephus, although we can not say that he alone was the one that laid the foundations of some literature 'Christian', definitely he has had a role in the emergence of this literature.

What must be clarified, however (look absolutely ignored by Reuchlin!) is the circumstance that it was NOT at all deal of the Catholic-Christianity, but of the JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY! (namely a cult strictly pro-Jewish , who did not had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Catholic one, born in Rome about 50-55 years after the founding, in Antioch, of the Judeo-Christianity).

Littlejohn S

.

Littlejohn · 07-09-2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

It's kind of funny how theories can come from left, right and center from who-knows-where, but when someone asserts simply that the person Jesus son of Mary and Joseph refers back to Yeshu son of Miriam and Joseph Pandera of the Talmud, arms flay all over, "No, it can't be! The Talmud? Heaven help us! Everyone knows the latest theory under the microscope is that Jesus was the son of Mary Queen of Scots and Joseph Conrad!!"
.

As long as you continue to use the 'hatchet' to analyze the ancient material, christian or non, while there it would be advisable to use a little 'knife', I doubt you can come up with something really meaningful and helpful to others, well as for yourself also!

For what concerns also the parents of Jesus (and of Judas Thomas, of course, having been the twin brother of Jesus), is highly probable, if not certain, that the father of both was the roman archer IULIUS TIBERIUS, said 'ABDES', said 'PANTHERA', which tomb was fortuitously discovered in Rhineland (Germany), near the location of Bingerbrück. The same Morton Smith said that "those of Bingerbrück are the only ones and TRUE relics of the ancient Christian world!"

As hard to believe it, are just the two attributes of the roman legionary(*), that do it almost certain his paternity of Jesus and his brother. There will be no wonder if one day, also not far, the Vatican (or whoever it) will decide to build a basilica near Bingerbrück!

________________________

(*) - and I do NOT refer to the fact that the attribute 'Panthera' is mentioned in the texts pagans, Christians and in the rabbinic ones, also.

Littlejohn S
.

Iskander · 07-09-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Littlejohn

Quote:

"...Almost surely, for example, Anicetus, the FIRST TRUE bishop of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church (the attribute 'Christian' will come later), was a priest of the Mithraic cult, the one closest to the emperors (see also Constantine I)."
.

- Pope Anicetus -

It is worth mentioning (see the works of Tertullian) the circumstance that Aniceto was able to earn what would become one of the most prestigious professorships in history, through the corruption of the electoral college, composed of the 'holy' presbyters.

At the expense was Valentino, the candidate most endowed and more prepared for this role. He, as it did Marcion (because nauseated by the environment with which he had previously worked), he abandoned the 'cheerful' and corrupt 'clique' for operate on his own, founding a sect whose doctrine was halfway between the address catholic-orthodox and the one gnostic-jesuan.

From everything you can imagine easily that are blatant error those that contend that the church or the Catholic clergy, you are spoiled 'growing', having been the 'sacred' institution morally rotten since its birth, miserably showing its nature and its origins purely secular!..

Littlejohn S

.

Is he the Pope Saint Anicetus?

Littlejohn · 07-09-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

Quote:

Originally Posted by Littlejohn

- Pope Anicetus -

It is worth mentioning (see the works of Tertullian) the circumstance that Aniceto was able to earn what would become one of the most prestigious professorships in history, through the corruption of the electoral college, composed of the 'holy' presbyters.

At the expense was Valentino, the candidate most endowed and more prepared for this role. He, as it did Marcion (because nauseated by the environment with which he had previously worked), he abandoned the 'cheerful' and corrupt 'clique' for operate on his own, founding a sect whose doctrine was halfway between the address catholic-orthodox and the one gnostic-jesuan.

From everything you can imagine easily that are blatant error those that contend that the church or the Catholic clergy, you are spoiled 'growing', having been the 'sacred' institution morally rotten since its birth, miserably showing its nature and its origins purely secular!..

Littlejohn S

.

Is he the Pope Saint Anicetus?
.

It is what appears on Wikipedia .... Keep in mind that the attribute 'papa' (pope) is derived from the mithraic context, where Pa.Pa. was the acronym for PATER PATRATUM (father of fathers).

Greetings

Littlejohn S

.

Littlejohn · 07-10-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Which specialists have actually addressed this issue? We know that there was at least some tampering with Josephus - has any expert detailed the full extent, or reasons to trust the text, when our earliest copy is from the 10th century? (This is not a rhetorical question. I don't know - I'm asking.)
.

"....We know that there was at least some tampering with Josephus..."

There is an aspect, however, that continues to be strangely ignored by the world of scholarship applied: namely the fact that 'such' a, known to history as 'Hegesippus' (from the greek 'Iosippos', namely Joseph : par excellence Josephus), has written in the second century, an epitome of the works of Josephus in 5 volumes(*).

Why has this epitome been written, when there you SHOULD be circulating the full versions of Josephus? ... How many scholars of the erudite world, sometime, asked themselves this question? .. Yet the argument is NOT at all 'unsubstantiated', but it is absolutely tangible! ..

We shall see hereinafter why ...

____________________________

(*) - A work largely mystified by counterfeiters fathers of the early centuries, who sought to persuade us that this was a first 'church history', titrating it 'Memoirs of Hegesippus', when, in fact, the original title was "De excidio Hierosolymitano", then fraudulently attributed to a figure of convenience called 'Pseudo-Hegesippus'. Note that Jerome, speaking of Hegesippus of the second century (ie, the real one), stated that he wrote a TRUE STORY (read you 'epitome of the works of Josephus') and not of the 'simple' memories! ..

Littlejohn S

.

Littlejohn · 07-17-2012, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkvoy

I have a question for Christ-mythicist,

suppose an early copy of Josepheus early works Antiquities of the Jews, either partial or total, was found, maybe in a cave like Dead Sea Scrolls or Nag Hammadi or archeological dig at Oxyrhynchus,, or in a library, that can be dated around 2nd or 3rd century, and in that copy it had a Testimonium Flavianum that read like this:
.

Quote:

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following both among many Jews and many of Greek origin, who called him Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
.

Would this establish the existence of a historical Jesus?
.

"..And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, condemned him to the cross.."

Hallucinating nonsense! ..

NONE better than Josephus knew that the Nazarene was sentenced to death by the Sanhedrin and executed by means stoning (see Talmud), around the year 72!(*)..

The same Josephus, then transformed into 'Joseph of Arimathea' in the Gospels of the counterfeiters, asked them for the body of Jesus, in order to be buried, to the Roman official on duty: namely the General Titus and NOT Pilate! ....

From all of this (and don't only!) you can easily guess that the so-called 'testimonium Flavianum' is a hallucinating historical forgery!

(according to some ecclesiasticals 'possibilistic', this would have been a gloss 'a latere' went 'accidentally' into main-stream of the narrative, due to a 'distracted' catholic scribe, while he proceeded in the copy of the text made available to him).

____________________________

(*) - it is worth remembering that the Slavonic version of Josephus, informs us that PILATE RELEASED JESUS! ... In practice, the Jesus of the other Slavic version was not that Iesous Bar-Abbas of the Gospels (see Origen). Keep in mind that Jesus was NOT the only one to have been 'labeled' with pseudo surname 'Bar Abba', namely an aramaic patronymic (from which Barabbas), but also all the followers of the sect of John the Baptist (the one of 'nasurei') and also all Nazarenes! This is closely linked to the TRUE origins of 'Nazarenes', coinciding practically with the same origins of hebraism (at least according to the Bible

Littlejohn S
.

Iskander · 07-17-2012, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Littlejohn

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkvoy

I have a question for Christ-mythicist,

suppose an early copy of Josepheus early works Antiquities of the Jews, either partial or total, was found, maybe in a cave like Dead Sea Scrolls or Nag Hammadi or archeological dig at Oxyrhynchus,, or in a library, that can be dated around 2nd or 3rd century, and in that copy it had a Testimonium Flavianum that read like this:
.

Would this establish the existence of a historical Jesus?
.

"..And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, condemned him to the cross.."

Hallucinating nonsense! ..

NONE better than Josephus knew that the Nazarene was sentenced to death by the Sanhedrin and executed by means stoning (see Talmud), around the year 72!(*)..

The same Josephus, then transformed into 'Joseph of Arimathea' in the Gospels of the counterfeiters, asked them for the body of Jesus, in order to be buried, to the Roman official on duty: namely the General Titus and NOT Pilate! ....

From all of this (and don't only!) you can easily guess that the so-called 'testimonium Flavianum' is a hallucinating historical forgery!

(according to some ecclesiasticals 'possibilistic', this would have been a gloss 'a latere' went 'accidentally' into main-stream of the narrative, due to a 'distracted' catholic scribe, while he proceeded in the copy of the text made available to him).

____________________________

(*) - it is worth remembering that the Slavonic version of Josephus, informs us that PILATE RELEASED JESUS! ... In practice, the Jesus of the other Slavic version was not that Iesous Bar-Abbas of the Gospels (see Origen). Keep in mind that Jesus was NOT the only one to have been 'labeled' with pseudo surname 'Bar Abba', namely an aramaic patronymic (from which Barabbas), but also all the followers of the sect of John the Baptist (the one of 'nasurei') and also all Nazarenes! This is closely linked to the TRUE origins of 'Nazarenes', coinciding practically with the same origins of hebraism (at least according to the Bible

Littlejohn S
.

Ah! My favourite Italian author is back,

Forgery is the rock on which the pope sits.

Peter de Rosa says in Vicars of Christ,

Quote:

For seven centuries, the Greeks had called Rome the home of forgeries. Whenever they tried talking with Rome, the popes brought out forged documents, even papal additions to council documents, which the Greeks, naturally, had never seen.

Peter de Rosa
Vicars of Christ,
Poolbeg
ISBN 9781842230008
Page 59

Littlejohn · 07-17-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

Ah! My favourite Italian author is back,

Forgery is the rock on which the pope sits.

Peter de Rosa says in Vicars of Christ,

Quote:

For seven centuries, the Greeks had called Rome the home of forgeries. Whenever they tried talking with Rome, the popes brought out forged documents, even papal additions to council documents, which the Greeks, naturally, had never seen.
.

Peter de Rosa
Vicars of Christ,
Poolbeg
ISBN 9781842230008
Page 59
.

Hi Iskander!

"..For seven centuries, the Greeks had called Rome the home of forgeries..."

How to disagree with Peter de Rosa?! ...

It is just think at the historical false, known as 'DONATION OF CONSTANTINE', to realize the extreme cynicism and extreme 'non-chalance' by which the 'holy' catholic clergy(or 'catholic-christian', to be more exact) 'built' their staggering historical forgeries! (aspect UNIQUE, among all monotheistic faiths!) ..

For a catholic ecclesiastical, because of his natural inclination to plagiarism and deception of neighbor, it is easier to manufacture a lie, however great it may be, who to recite a Hail Mary! ..

They feel not scruple, no remorse of conscience in doing so, since they 'self-absolve' themselves with the belief that ALL (lies, deceit, massacres, genocide, etc..) is done for the 'greater glory of God' and in the interest of the souls of plagiarized, that they would presume to save from the 'sin' (sic!!)

In his kind, the deception 'orchestrated' by counterfeiter fathers of 19 centuries ago, around the HISTORICAL figure of Jesus of Nazareth, is almost a ''chef-d'ouvre'', since NOTHING like it is possible to find in all other religions, both monotheistic and 'pagan-polytheistic'.

In front of hallucinating cumulus of lies, put togheter by 'holy' counterfeiters of the past, even the much 'maligned' Islamism got value of religion 'credible'! .. (Actually NO ONE is such!)

Greetings

Littlejohn

_____________________

"..at Rome you do the faith, elsewhere they believe it.."

- old medieval saying -
.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

07-08-2012, 01:32 PM	#91
Duvduv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,095	It's kind of funny how theories can come from left, right and center from who-knows-where, but when someone asserts simply that the person Jesus son of Mary and Joseph refers back to Yeshu son of Miriam and Joseph Pandera of the Talmud, arms flay all over, "No, it can't be! The Talmud? Heaven help us! Everyone knows the latest theory under the microscope is that Jesus was the son of Mary Queen of Scots and Joseph Conrad!!"

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.