Originally Posted by Atheos

Although I think some arguments from silence have merit this doesn't seem to be one that does.
The rope thing was in Acts so technically it's not something "Paul" told us about.

Originally Posted by 2 Cor 1:1 "Paul..."

32. In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:

33. And through a window in a basket I was let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.

(2 Cor. 11:32-33 + Acts 9:25 )

Originally Posted by jakejonesiv

:constern02:By the time even the "authentic" epistles were written, The Great Apostle, Paul, was gone and long rumored to be dead. But he would return again—as was his wont—from beyond the grave in terrifying epistles.

There are multiple reports of Paul's death. He had reportedly died many times before, and had even more close calls.

2 Corinthians 11:23-26 (Young's Literal Translation)
23 …I more; in labours more abundantly, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, IN DEATHS MANY TIMES;
24 from Jews five times forty [stripes] save one I did receive;
25 thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice was I shipwrecked, a night and a day in the deep I have passed;
26 journeyings many times, perils of rivers, perils of robbers, perils from kindred, perils from nations, perils in city, perils in wilderness, perils in sea, perils among false brethren;

Paul, like the fictitious Pauline copy-cat Ignatius, had been martyred by the wild beasts; Paul in Ephesus in Asia Minor. “… I die daily. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not?” , 1 Cor. 15:31-32.

How, the readers of the epistles asked, if Paul had died (multiple times, even daily like Jesus in the Eucharist 1 Cor. 15:31) had he still been able to send epistles? The answer is that Paul had been resurrected!

2 Corinthians 1:8-9
8: For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
9: But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead:
10: Who delivered us out of so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

As we have seen previously, the risen Jesus Christ communicated through the ecstatic utterances of spirit filled prophets. In a similar but unique method, the risen Paul communicates through terrifying posthumous letters. 2 Cor. 10:9. It is Paul’s “signature move.” He is the Paper Apostle.

2 Corinthians 13
1: This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
2: I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare:

Did you see that? Paul had come to the Corinthians three times by epistles, each constituting a separate witness to Paul’s message. If the “comings” had been physical visits by the historical Paul, or even if all the letters to the Corinthians had been written by the alleged historical Paul, the appeal to “two or three witnesses” would be meaningless.

There is even a concern and an apology for the delay of Paul’s parousia!
2 Corinthians 12
14: Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you…
20: For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would…
21: And lest, when I come again…
Note the similarity to the Son of Man saying in Lk 18:8.

How Christ-like is he? When Paul does come again, he will spare not the judgment of the sinners.
2 Corinthians 13:2 I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare.

Paul is dead. He is "absent in body but present in spirit" (1 Cor. 5:3). To be "absent from the body" is to be "present with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:8). But just as Jesus will have a future coming (1 Cor. 4:5) also will Paul (1 Cor. 4:19).

Paul has many of the attributes of divinity, including being the *Father* of believers, who are his *beloved sons* whom he has *begotten* whom he calls to *follow me*. (1 Cor. 4:14-16. cf Mark 1:11, 17; Psalm 2:7, Acts 13:33, Heb 1:5; 5:5). The *spirit* of Paul has the authority to judge a man and deliver him to Satan for the destruction of his flesh. 1 Cor. 5:4-5.

The “spirit of Paul” sent forth his own emissaries in the form of the bearers of his posthumous letters. The epistles in reality were written by later followers, channeling what Paul “would have said;” e.g. 1 Corinthians Sosthenes, 2 Corinthians 1:1 Timothy. The bearers of these letters would use them as credentials with the various Pauline churches. We see this in the “fill in the blank” ______ brother of 2 Corinthians 12:18 noted by R.Price.

Phillipians, far from being authentic, is the "Last Testament of Paul"

The letter abounds with clues to its in pseudepigraphical nature.
The letter writer of Philippians and its readers share a background of Paul’s death in the dim past. The epistle is filled with this literary foreshadowing.
His colleagues are long dead, enshrined now in the book of life. Phil 4:3. The “bishops and deacons” reveal a church organization far in advance with Paul’s putative time.
Paul is hovering between life and death (Phil 1:21-22). He will have a second coming (2:24) by returning in pseudepigraphical letters.

Paul’s absence (2:12) is a reference to Paul’s alleged death long ago. The death of Paul had in the intervening period become a complimentary sacrifice alongside Christ himself 2:16-17. He shares in Christ’s suffering (3:10) as he races towards his perfection, his legendary death at the headsman axe --poured out as a libation upon the sacrificial service of faith, 2:17.

Next, lets look at 1 Clement.

"By reason of jealousy and strife Paul by his example pointed out the prize of patient endurance. After that he had been seven times in bonds, had been driven into
exile, had been stoned, had preached in the East and in the West, he won the
noble renown which was the reward of his faith, having taught righteousness unto the whole world and having reached the farthest bounds of the West; and when he had borne his testimony before the rulers, so he departed from the world
and went unto the holy place, having been found a notable pattern of patient
endurance." 1Clem 5:5-6.

That Paul was in bonds seven times is mentioned nowhere in the New Testament epistles or Acts.

Finally, we can come to the Muratorian fragment that alleges that Paul went to Spain. Perhaps the redactor of 1 Clement thought Paul was assumed into heaven from there. Whatever the case, the legend of Paul continued to grow. Clearly we are not dealing with historical facts.

Best Regards,
Jake Jones IV

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Careful not to mistake Paul the Jew, with what the Gentile church did to the the writings of Paul.

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Careful not to mistake Paul the Jew, with what the Gentile church did to the the writings of Paul.

Originally Posted by Onias

What do you think the gentile church did to the writings of Paul, and how do you know?

Originally Posted by Onias

What do you think the gentile church did to the writings of Paul, and how do you know?

Originally Posted by Onias

How do you know that Paul was a Jew when there is no extrabiblical record to show he was even a historical person?

Originally Posted by Duvduv

The truth is that in general too much is riding on the claim of the historicity of "Paul" (the name on a few of the epistles) with no corroboration for many people. Too much is riding on it to be bothered with the fact that there is nothing to corroborate his existence. Or to corroborate that the letters under his name were even sent anywhere, or to corroborate that they were received anywhere, or to corroborate that any Christian communities existed in those places to which the epistles were addressed.

Too much is riding on the historicity of Paul and of course for that matter the historicity of the NT Jesus among both religious and secular academics.I doubt that things will change, regardless of the lack of corroboration of anything outside the Church's own claims and the texts that have been in its possession for so many years.