3DJay

She "specifically" supports your position "elsewhere"? Please cite.

How you arrived at your "Biblical historical inerrancy" position, when there are no walls, and only 1 house, at the LBA level, is beyond me.

You do know there were supposed to be walls, according to the Bible, right? Just checking, since you've erred about the Bible, before.


Peace

Sauron

Nice try, but Messiah Larsguy doesn't know his own bible. The manna was provided for 40 years. But the quail were not provided for 40 years. Only for a month:

Gotta wonder how come skeptics know the bible better than Messiah Larsguy does....:rolling:

To remind you of the dilemma: the Hebrews were allegedly encamped at Kadesh-Barnea for 38 years. So even if you had strong winds for a month that brought quail from the sea as well as wiped away any traces of humanity, your homemade excuse is still in trouble.

That still leaves 37 years and 11 months of alleged encampment at Kadesh-Barnea --- an encampment of 2.5 million people, plus barnyard animals -- an encampment for which zero evidence exists.

Sadly incorrect. That's just another load of bullshit from the bullshit messiah.

Larsguy47

OOOPS! What would I do without you folks keeping me on the straight and narrow? Thanks for that correction. Indeed, I had a superficial concept of when the quails were supplied. Apparently it happened twice in two different years, but not every day for 38 years. So back to square 1.

But I still wonder, now that we're into this fantasy. What if God became disgusted with the Jews and that 40-year trek in the wilderness and did cause some intense winds to occur and blow all evidence away that they had been in that region? That might explain why there is no archaeological evidence of their trek.

Or as noted before, it would have only taken one severe hurricaine in the region of Kadesh-Barnea, which faces the sea to displace and erode the LBIIA layer that might have held some evidence of the Jews for this period in that region.

Based upon the arguments here that, certainly something of these 2.5 million people over those years should have been left, with absolutely nothing being found for this period, there is little alternative but to presume some catatrophic event that distorts or erases the normal archaeological picture.

The new question is, therefore. Since apparently it is abnormal not to have this evidence from their trek in this region, and since we clearly find archaeological and historical evidence of the Jews at other times in this region, why would God cause the evidence of the Jews in this region to be removed? or hidden? You know, the holy manna did fall on this ground. Maybe that had something to do with it, he didn't want this defiled in any way so he completely displaced the soil and sand in this region, not leaving a single trace of the Jews ever having been here. ?? That might explain why this is a totally BLANK PAGE in Jewish history, archaeologically speaking, whereas evidence of the Jews survives elsewhere generally speaking.

LG47

RED DAVE

From Larsguy47;
Bullshit, as usual. As you'll do before this post is done. Guaranteed.

From Larsguy47;
Too bad you won't learn anything from it. Guaranteed.

From Larsguy47;
Like in every other piece of nonsense you've tred to foist on us.

Still waiting for the famous secret book that gives all the dirt on the Socrates-Aristotle affair (even though Soc died before Ari was born). You've been asked to produce the book for weeks, and you've failed to do so. By now the presumption that it doesn't exist is reasonable.

From Larsguy47;
The fantasy is yours. Others have posted facts.

From Larsguy47;
And since there's no evidence for such weather in the area, one more piece of bullshit. You have no idea what such a storm would look like or what it could do.

I knew you'd be spewing nonsense again when confronted with facts that torpedo, one more time, the fantasy that 2+ million people could wantder around in the desert for 40 years and leave no trace.

From Larsguy47;
it would have taken a lot more than one hurricane. And such a storm would leaves traces.

Now you're showing your ignorance of meteorology. Why am I not surprised?

From Larsguy47;
Like I said, you never learn.

How about the much more logical presumption that they just were never there?

From Larsguy47;
Pure nonsense. We're back with miracles, which means we've left the realms of science and history.

No wonder you can thing of yourself as the Messiah. The objects of your imagination become real -- in your mind. You and praxeus need to form a club: he can't find the Flood and you can't find the Exodus.

Maybe you two can take a trip to Israel and search together.

RED DAVE

Larsguy47

Not exactly. You have to be specific. The 918-823BCE at 95.4% is the result of 2-sigma testing (AMS) results, weighted at 95.4% always. The two values from the 1-sigma are 903-892 (13.4%) and 885-845BCE (54.8%). 13.4% and 54.8% combine for the standard value of 68.2% for 1-sigma dating (PGC). Now any date in those ranges carry the attendendant value you state. And it is true. However, within this range there are preferences toward the higher averages, which in random testing, seemed to pile up toward the middle of the range, generally.

So the question would be, does that weighted average toward the middle of the range suggest a date closer to the single year of this event? Is there a preference for say 870.5 BCE for this event over 918BCE or 823BCE? I am hearing that you are saying, NO. Each date is equally possible.

I'm saying that is not the case, but that 874-867BCE, which carries the highest "relative probability" indeed is representative of being closest to the true date that that there is a 98% probability that this event occurred sometime between 874-867BCE. This is confirmed by the Biblical dating which dates that event to 871BCE. So it works.

That's only because they are stuck using the outdated and incorrectly dated fixed chronology from the Assyrian eclipse dated to 763BCE which everybody knows doesn't follow the standard dating for that period and it dates that event in what normally would have been month 2 instead of month 3. So, of course, they are confused. Level IV doesn't match Shishak dated to 925BCE, which is 54 years too early. The Biblical dating for that event is in 871BCE, however, which falls within the highest probability range for this event which is 874-867BCE.

Listen, we've been through this. There is 1000% probability that Rehov fell sometime between 4000BCE and 1992. Guaranteed. The 2-sigma range for this event is as you stated, 95.4% probability between 918-823BCE, 925BCE falling outside that range, of course. But the highest average dating for the 2-sigma range falls above 98% for dates 874-867BCE. The writers consider this to be closer to the "true date" of this event. And they are absolutely right because the true date was 871BCE based upon Biblical dating, which is the most reliable form of dating. In the meantime, the 763BCE dating of the Assyrian Period is questionable since normally that event on June 15, 763BCE would normally fall in month 2 rather than month 3. But, of course, that doesn't bother very many people except perhaps Wikipedia who points that out.

But in the meantime, also out of touch with recent research are the double-dating references to 511BCE found in a Seleucid-Period text (VAT4956) that ostensibly forces the redaing of year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar back to 511BCE. That dating lowers the entire Neo-Babylonian Period by 57 years, which adjusts nicely to the July 17, 709BCE eclipse, which does happen to fall during the natural and "customary" third month for an eclipse in Assyria, besides being a predictable eclipse. That in turn redates Shishak's invasion from 925BCE to 871BCE, which then matches both the Biblical dating and the HIGHEST WEIGHTED AVERAGE 2-sigma dating c. 870.5 BCE.

So, by all means, continue to lag behind the research, why don't you? That's the only way to keep the debate going and books sold I suppose. Same old story.

LG47

Sauron

Well, you might acquaint yourself with the book you claim you wrote.

What if this, what if that, what if you pulled something else out of your ass. Not interested in your speculation here.

Not interested in this bit of guesswork either.

The only reason that you see no other alternative -- except to construct an undocumented, convenient disaster, that is -- stems from your pre-ordained solution. You're trying to rescue the exodus story from the trash heap of bad history, and you're unwilling to just let the evidence speak for itself: the exodus never happened.

So to correct your rambling, "there is little alternative but to presume that the exodus is a myth."

Jews in this region? No, we don't.

Because it never happened in the first place?

More desperate guessing?

Uh, no. Evidence does not "survive elsewhere" prior to the united kingdom period. In fact, the bible is atrociously inaccurate up to about that point.

Larsguy47

No, I did! What is this, be unkind to pretend messiah week?!!! I completely retracted that "theory". I stand corrected. Give me credit (or cash! - just kidding.)


Yeah, okay, so my 100% batting average is taking a sump down to 98%. I give that to you. Happy?

I'm not giving it up just yet, though I'm tempted. Reporters don't always give out their sources. Anyway, forget about them be lovers. It's just a potential that I have yet to completely dismiss. Like Phaedo was supposed to be truly handsome and a real person, but there is no bust of him that I found yet! But there are several of Aristotle who indeed has clasically nice features. I wonder if he was sculpted more often because of his fame or because of his good looks? So that was a dead end. So we'll see. I'm considering the possibility that there was a true "Phaedo" person, perhaps, but maybe he was used as a cover for Aristotle. But as yet that is not established. So I'm still researching.

Oh yeah! Why didn't I think of that! You're right! The book doesn't exist... in California! Oh wait, it might. Let's see how I can make a true but misleading statement. Oh yes! The book doesn't exist in the bottom of the Pacific! Oh, but, do I really KNOW that for sure. Someone might have had it reading it on a cruise and then the boat sank and indeed a copy is at the bottom of the Pacific. OKAY. Here goes. It does NOT exist on an oak computer desk in my real esate office! That's a true statement. Because one, my computer desk is not make of oak and two, I don't have a real estate office! So now, having established the book does not "exist as specified" you have no reason to believe that either two of those very straight Greek men would dare have carnal knowledge of each other and their relationship was strictly one of student and teacher.

Yes, I'm living in a fantasy world, one which you can't disprove a single thing about. "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean people aren't chasing you!"

I don't need a reference or confirmation of such weather since you can't prove a major storm or hurricane never occurred in that area sometime between 1306 BCE and 900 BCE. If you need evidence for that event, then don't believe it. I don't need evidence of it, only the non-disprovable presumption.


No. Actually I'm more convinced about that now. Either evidence is yet to be found that should have been left, or that evidence was never there or got removed. I've accepted that at this point.

God has the ability to do many things if that was his intent. Ever hear of the Global Flood?

Um.... because you've seen it ALL?

I am learning! Something is WRONG here. Some little something should have been found under normal circumstances. The fact that NOTHING is found suggests something is wrong or something extraordinary happened that we are not seeing. So I'm no longer arguing the evidence was never logically there, but looking at what might have altered or removed that evidence, including divine intervention. Thus: WHY this area would be "sanitized" compared to where the Jews lived in later times? etc.

Well, the Bible names those places and I'm trusting they match at least generally these locations, so we know they were there. From the time of Shishak on we have a compatible Biblical history with lots of corroboration. Akhenaten's radical response toward monotheism certainly is enough to confirm the Ten Plagues actually occurred, and the context of an Amarna Letter that the death of Amenhotep III was well publized and potentially with others. So we have them in Egypt, we have them in place by the time of Menereptah as a nation, so they had to be somewhere between Egypt and Palestine in the time of Mereneptah. The Bible says they were in the wilderness of Sin so that's where we'd expect to find some evidence of that. But apparently what is normally expected is not there. It's more logical to presume something happened to the evidence or there was none of the standard evidence than these people simply didn't exist, vanished into thin air after leaving Egypt and then reappear out of thin air by the time of Mereneptah.

As far as the archaeological gap for this period, I'm just guessing at what could be, though my options are narrowing.

Hello? We're just talking about this one little segment. If there are no logical "archaeological" solutions then YES there may have been some divine intervention here. As a Biblicalist that holds value because of what happened. 1) This was a place of shame. 2) The miracle of the manna occurred here. 3) God took precautions to hide Moses' body suggesting issues of displaced sentiment. 4) At one point the earth opened up and swallowed up some people. 5) Mount Sinai and the Burning Bush location could be suppressed, etc. 6) Maybe God did something with those who died at this time as well for some reason. This group, for instance, in particular was not to "enter into [God's] rest", so God may have made sure both body and bones went back to dust and then that dust blow to the four winds. How ANGRY was God with this group of Jews?

So, I don't know. Or they may find a massive LBIIA period grave or something. But I'm still researching.


Listen! By no means let me pressure you into believing ONE THING! If I can keep my fantasying going, then so can you! Don't let my claim of the messiah influence you! I mean, BE REAL! What are the odds of me really being the Messiah!!! ??? Truthfully? What? 100%? 99.9%?


I guess. But like I said, I may not have any answers for this particular period, but the Jews show up quite consistently with the Scriptures by the time of Shishak, living in the Great post-Solomonic Period. They found the palaces!! So, if this small area remains a mystery because we're not seeing the whole story, then that won't change all the other things we have confirmed. Even so, I can't blame anyone at this point for doubting this event in the lack of evidence. That's your choice. But the lack of evidence DISPROVES nothing.

LG47

spin

Nothing can keep you straight and narrow.

You should consider the notion of how many quail would have been necessary to feed your 2.4 exodonians and where they could possibly have come from. That's when you start proposing miracle on miracle.

The only wind coming out of this is from all the beans you've been eating. A public airing of such is not really welcome.

Not only miracle on miracle, but here you're proposing fantasy on fantasy.

This is so abject. When was the last hurricane on record around Egypt?

The most catastrophic event you should consider is that the writers did not represent a historical event.

You have started with the false assumption that the book must be correct and then provided wild assumptions to make it correct, then provided wild assumptions to make your earlier wild assumptions seem more acceptable to you.

Without your slavish dependence on the book your life will become less complicated and less liable to producing inanities.

Here once again you find a wild assumption shown to be wild and you are going back to resuscitate it.

That's what the book said, but was the manna real or metaphorical and was the story in which it is found real or metaphorical?

It's interesting that you are desperately trying to cover tracks that you haven't uncovered.

When archaeology shows that something is missing in a stratum it usually means that it was never there.

Here is your opportunity to get rid of all the post hoc justifications, get rid of all your wildly speculative theories, get rid of all the accretions encrusting the exodus tradition. That will allow you to come at the tradition cleanly and evaluate it on its own merits in its indicated historical context. That will allow you to decide if the tradition or a part of it is veracious as it stands.


spin

post tenebras lux

Of course, sometimes even those survive. Here are some ten thousand year old ones:



From a little BBC article called "Britain's Oldest House?"

Or some better preserved eight and a half thousand year old ones:



The accompanying text reads:

xaxxat

Hey, LG47 Messiah, why don't you fly back into time and take some videos of the exodus for us? Also, hide some artifacts when you're there, so we can find them now...