mountainman

"There is nothing new in the world except the history you do not know".

Chili

I like your exclamation at the end

jgreen44

Is it possible he meant simply that he was the first to engage in writing a comprehensive history of the Christian church?

aa5874

If you read the passage in "Church History" 1 you will see the words So, it is extremely CLEAR that Eusebius is claiming from the start that he has very little or hardly anything except some BREIF fragments.

And he PLEADED for help. He is on a LONELY path.

Please look at his PLEA for help.

"Church History" 1 Eusebius had problems. He had ONLY brief fragments. He needed prayers and the POWER of the Lord.

It would appear that he did NOT have or heard of the Acts of the Apostles, the Pauline writings, the 18 and 20th books of "Antiquities of the Jews", 5 books from Irenaeus called "Against Heresies" or the 5 books from Tertullian called "Against Marcion, the 8 books from Origen called "Against Celsus", ONLY brief fragments.

Eusebius need your prayers, "....pray that I may have God as my guide and the power of the Lord as my aid..."

jgreen44

But could it be that he was referring to "brief fragments" of historically valuable information interspersed within the apologetic writings of Tertullian, Irenaeus, et al.

aa5874

So, he was lonely and needed help because he had historically valuable information?

jgreen44

Yes. "Brief fragments" of historically valuable information.

aa5874

The Bishop Eusebius was lonely and needed prayers this would indicate that the "brief fragments" were not very helpful.

It is just remarkable that a Bishop of Rome who should have known the history of the Church from those BISHOPS BEFORE him claimed he was the FIRST to write the history of the Church and had "brief fragments".

Did not the BISHOPS BEFORE Eusebius have Matthew 16?

Mt 16:18 - Did not the BISHOPS BEFORE Eusebius have the writings of Irenaeus who gave the succession of Bishops from Peter to his own time?

The BISHOPS BEFORE Eusebius did NOT have anything but "brief fragments".

Eusebius was LONELY and needed prayers.

Before he was finished writing it would appear his prayers were answered. He was LUCKY to have found LIBRARIES filled with books that were EASILY accessible.

jgreen44

Let's assume for the sake of argument that all Eusebius had to go on was brief fragments of historical data from all of those apologetic writings of the previous centuries. Then what were his sources? If all he had in writing from an historical perspective were "brief fragments" how did he piece together his massive history? From what? Oral tradition?

aa5874

How many times do I have to show you "Church History" 1 by Eusebius?

There is really no argument. No need to guess.

You do not have to assume he had "brief fragments". Eusebius did claim he was UNABLE to find the bare footsteps of those before him except for fragments. That is the EVIDENCE or the written statement from the "FIRST historian of the Church".

Now, how did he manage to PIECE together this MASSIVE history?

Well what "massive history" did Eusebius piece together?

What massive history?

What is the massive "history" for the contents, dating, authorship, and chronology of the Gospels?

1.It is likely that there was no character called Jesus the Messiah before the Fall of the Temple.

2. It is likely that there were no disciples of Jesus called the Messiah before the Fall of the Temple.

3. It is likely that there were no writers called Matthew, Mark, Luke and John before the Fall of the Temple.

4. It is likely that the Gospel according to gMatthew was written after the Fall of the Temple.

Eusebius seems to be massively wrong with his "history" of the Gospels and I have not even touched Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles and Revelation.

It would seem that Eusebius was right.

He ONLY had some fragments. He was indeed LONELY and needed prayers.

You must agree that the so-called massive "Church History" is the result of a FEW fragments.

The massive errors are consistent when working with a few fragments not with LIBRARIES and hundreds of books.